Patch 5.4 Trailer, Predictions, and Hints

[Kesey]

But why would creation magic drain aether from the planet when they use internal resources?

But they don't use internal resources they draw on aether around them. Using internal aether to do creation magic would be killing yourself to make something new. They are clearly abusing creation magic and aether.

[LineageRazor]

But why would creation magic drain aether from the planet when they use internal resources?

Zodiark has been established to use the Aether of other beings to fuel his actions. The things he does are so powerful, and so wide in scope that no single individual could possibly have enough internal reserves to fuel them, even with self-sacrifice. The sacrifice of others - BILLIONS of others, or even more depending on what the population of the world was at the time the Ancients enacted plan Zodiark - is par the course for Zodiark. Emet made it plain, too, that while the Ancients cooperated and gave up their lives willingly in order to summon Zodiark and save the world, cooperation of the ones to be sacrificed isn't actually necessary, since they planned on using the new life of the planet to bring back the sacrificed Ancients.

Prior to Zodiark, all known uses of Creation magic did not use external resources, because they were small enough in scope that individuals could comfortably fuel them from their internal resources alone. The Zodiark plan was a desperate and experimental one, but it did work. It also laid the groundwork for modern-day Summoning, given that the Sundered races do not have enough internal Aether to summon without depending on external resources - usually crystals, but sometimes living sacrifices, as well.

[Morningstar1337]

But why would creation magic drain aether from the planet when they use internal resources?

The Aumarotines use internal resouces, and that is becuae they have the capacity to do it. Everyone else that used creation magic, the beastmen, Ysayle, Yotsuyu, Louisoux had to use external aether for creation magics. that is why the crystals were used so ofthen for those.

You have to understand that the modern day summoning of deiforms is creation magic as priced by beings that don't have the capacity to preform it "safely" using their own Aether.

[Erendis]

The Aumarotines use internal resouces, and that is becuae they have the capacity to do it. Everyone else that used creation magic, the beastmen, Ysayle, Yotsuyu, Louisoux had to use external aether for creation magics. that is why the crystals were used so ofthen for those.

You have to understand that the modern day summoning of deiforms is creation magic as priced by beings that don't have the capacity to preform it "safely" using their own Aether.

My post has nothing to do with current primals summons. Kesey was saying that ancient calamity was caused by ancients using planet's aether. But if ancients used their own aether for creation magic it was not what caused the calamity.

[Kesey]

My post has nothing to do with current primals summons. Kesey was saying that ancient calamity was caused by ancients using planet's aether. But if ancients used their own aether for creation magic it was not what caused the calamity.

Y'shotla says theorizes that the Ancients use their own aether for creation magic. Her and Alisaie claim the matter needs further study and is then never answered.

But what we can confirm in Amaurot is that the sounds happen and any Ancients near it are they are stripped of their ability to use creation magic.

I know my theory isn't air-tight, but I'm trying to piece together a time line. Even if they are using their personal stores of aether to do creation magic, they are still abusing it to a point that the planet or some other unknown force is trying to take away the creation magic.

We should be more focused on what line did they cross instead of the source of the creation magic.

[Morningstar1337]

We should be more focused on what line did they cross instead of the source of the creation magic.

I still of the opinion that the creation magic was the line that was crossed here. That somehow the planet was enraged by the existence of godlike entities (or more accurately the hubris that caused) and decided to hijack, regardless of the source of the aether used for it.

[Veloran]

I still of the opinion that the creation magic was the line that was crossed here. That somehow the planet was enraged by the existence of godlike entities (or more accurately the hubris that caused) and decided to hijack, regardless of the source of the aether used for it.

That makes absolutely no sense though.

For one thing, creation magic was natural to the Ancients. We're told even newvorn babes could do it and it came as naturally to them as breathing. Some people had greater or lesser capacity, but every single one of them was born to it. Why would the planet destroy them for something they were naturally gifted with?

Secondly, the statement that the Final Days stripped them of their creation magic is wrong. In fact it made their magic run wild to the point they were creating things uncontrollably. However this was also only a symptom of the Final Days, because what was truly killing the planet is something that's described like life becoming anathema to itself. Every living thing started twisting and dying, and the Lifestream effectively started strangling itself and was on the edge of dying altogether. So why would the planet's solution to supposedly being overtaxed be to completely kill itself and turn the whole world into a barren rock? Even when a similar scenario happened in FFVII the planet's response was to try and destroy humanity, not itself.

Lastly, the Sound that started the apocalypse first appeared in another society on another continent to Amaurot, and systematically continued appearing everywhere outward from that until almost nothing was left. It doesn't make sense for it to be Amaurot's fault when it originated with another civilization entirely.

I'm not saying that it couldn't have been caused by creation magic in SOME way, but this framework of "the Amaurotine abused their power and the world killed them for it" really does not stand up to scrutiny.

[Kesey]

That makes absolutely no sense though.

For one thing, creation magic was natural to the Ancients. We're told even newvorn babes could do it and it came as naturally to them as breathing. Some people had greater or lesser capacity, but every single one of them was born to it. Why would the planet destroy them for something they were naturally gifted with?

Secondly, the statement that the Final Days stripped them of their creation magic is wrong. In fact it made their magic run wild to the point they were creating things uncontrollably. However this was also only a symptom of the Final Days, because what was truly killing the planet is something that's described like life becoming anathema to itself. Every living thing started twisting and dying, and the Lifestream effectively started strangling itself and was on the edge of dying altogether. So why would the planet's solution to supposedly being overtaxed be to completely kill itself and turn the whole world into a barren rock? Even when a similar scenario happened in FFVII the planet's response was to try and destroy humanity, not itself.

Lastly, the Sound that started the apocalypse first appeared in another society on another continent to Amaurot, and systematically continued appearing everywhere outward from that until almost nothing was left. It doesn't make sense for it to be Amaurot's fault when it originated with another civilization entirely.

I'm not saying that it couldn't have been caused by creation magic in SOME way, but this framework of "the Amaurotine abused their power and the world killed them for it" really does not stand up to scrutiny.

You have some facts here, most of this is just theory. Emet himself claims that the final days are the product of their hubris. Clearly the Ancients crossed a line even though what those details aren't manifest (hence the previous discussion points). The Amaurotan npcs for first main story quest tell how any Ancients exposed to the sound (which isn't one big event but seems to happen numerous times) does strip an Ancient of their ability to use creation magic. As we know little other than the planet caused the sound(s) then takes away creation magic kind of points the figure as the route of the problem.

Granted we could really use some clarification here, but I suspect that we won't be informed of the actual cause of the sound(s) till either we remember Azem's memories or Venat (who may still exist as primal as the Heart of Hydaelyn) informs us.

[Veloran]

Emet himself claims that the final days are the product of their hubris.

That depends what he was referring to. First off, the inter-Amaurotine conflict that produced the sundering was obviously the Ancient's own fault, and could be classified as hubris in a number of different regards. For the calamity that brought about Zodiark's summoning to begin with, if you go through Amaurot, clearly people have some idea of what's going on, but the Amaurotines and the Convocation are failing to act. The question of whether they should intercede in the affairs of other nations is legitimate, but in this case they do nothing until the issue has literally arrived on their doorstep. That itself could be considered a failing of their hubris.

The Amaurotan npcs for first main story quest tell how any Ancients exposed to the sound (which isn't one big event but seems to happen numerous times) does strip an Ancient of their ability to use creation magic. As we know little other than the planet caused the sound(s) then takes away creation magic kind of points the figure as the route of the problem.

Except that's not what they say about it. Go back and read though the related dialog, one of the side effects of the Sound was making their creation magic become wild and uncontrollable, leading them to spontaneously create nightmares and monstrosities due to their fears. It didn't take away creation magic, it kicked it into overdrive. And again this was only a side effect of the Sound, the primary effect was causing life and the Lifestream to become self-destructive and suicidal, ultimately leading to the death of everything.

Moreover, we don't actually know that the planet itself caused the Sound, just that it came from within the planet. The fact that it led to the planet's death is suggestive that it doesn't originate from the aetherial sea itself, but something else.

[Jandor]

It's brought up a few times in ARR by the Ascians to show how close they are to realizing their goals, but to be clear an 8th rejoining just lets Zodiark out of the moon. And the alternate timeline clearly represents itself as being in the middle of an apocalypse even if Zodiark isn't seen. Also the passage of time seen in alternate future is explained too, because the summoning of Zodiark is just a delay to the end days and not an actual solution to the end days. The Ancients that follow Venat and summon Hydaelyn explain this.

So most likely the chain of events are as follows: 8th calamity/rejoining is achieved, Zodiark comes out of the moon, Zodiark causes a world of chaos because he can rewrite the rules of existence, because Zodiark is a primal and rewriting consumes aether he drains the star of aether (this is the apocalypse and takes place over a long period of time), the lack of aether leads to the final days (albeit not immediately).

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The 8th rejoining world was apocalyptic because there had just been a rejoining. They do tend to be rather calamitous events.

I don't think we can really be sure that Zodiark passively consumes aether like current primals do either. Hydaelyn was created using much the same method and has been knocking about for several thousand years seemingly without causing any aether related issues.