Revelations from Patch 5.4

[Slatersev]

So, this isnt a big deal at all, but its about a certain characters clothing in the Eden raid and how it might be a model error.

So, I didn't notice when I played through Eden the first time, and judging by pretty much everywhere else neither have many others. But I saw a thread on twitter the other day that pointed out that:

Mitron lacks the shoulder pauldrons and little wings the rest of the Red Mask Overlords have. Now the thread that pointed this out hypotheses this was because another Mitron fragment had been raised to the seat already and thus Eden!Mitron was no longer officially ranked in the Convocation of Fourteen. Which I thought made sense, until I checked back and noticed he is also missing them in the flashback where he talks to Loghrif and she on the other hand definitely has them. And thanks to the flashback images and the Ardbert echo memory, we know Mitron had the Pauldrons when he was working with Clyva and when he was killed, as seen here: so it doesn't seem like Mitron is supposed to have a "lesser" robe but he does.

Now it's totally possible there is a story reason for this we just don't know yet, but given what we have seen, and the fact that 5.4's production was obviously effected by setting up wfh and covid, it wouldn't surprise me if Mitron's model was given the wrong robe by mistake and it just slipped through the cracks in a very hectic time for the team. Which would be totally understandable.

If the image link is somehow broken, both M and L's wiki pages have it in there gallery sections

And as I said, this isnt some lore breaking massive plot hole or anything, and indeed there is even the possibility it was on purpose, but on the chance it wasnt I have two questions.

1: Has Square ever patched a characters appearance before in the event they were somehow given the wrong gear?
2: If it was an error is there anyway to actually let SE know? Would using a support ticket be the way? Or something else?

[Cilia]

Eden

The final battle and ending of VIII get very trippy between certain points, and considering that the Eden's Promise tier pays a lot of homage to them I wouldn't try to make too much sense of the ending.

Werlyt

The whole thing is meant to be both homage to mecha shows (Ruby Weapon is heavily influenced by Neon Genesis Evangelion, Sapphire is influenced by Gundam; still tying to figure out Emerald) and serve as Gaius' "redemption" arc, or at least show he is genuinely remorseful for the things he did as legatus.

Unfortunately, the only way to really do that is to put him up against genuine scumbags to provide a greater contrast; and since the Weapons are references to VII, and the legion creating and employing them was set to match, and given the antagonists in VII are generally terrible people the new legatus at the helm could reasonably be expected to be pretty shitty. Valens van Varro was apparently influenced by Hojo, and if you know how terrible Hojo was... yeah...

(Rufus being "not as bad as" and working against Sephiroth does not making him good, nor does Avalanche's terrible actions in the prologue (in the original; Remake makes the Reactor explosions part of a smear campaign by Shinra). Fallacy of relative privation, ho!)

My feelings on the story so far are... mixed. I understand it's meant to be Gaius' redemption arc, and it's doing well at that... if only by pitting him against a garbage person like Valens. Being a fan of VII and mecha shows I do appreciate the references, though once again I wish we could get some more original content. So I say, but then the MSQ ends up being disappointing and/or boring for 2 patches now...

[RyuDragnier]

Werlyt

The whole thing is meant to be both homage to mecha shows (Ruby Weapon is heavily influenced by Neon Genesis Evangelion, Sapphire is influenced by Gundam; still tying to figure out Emerald) and serve as Gaius' "redemption" arc, or at least show he is genuinely remorseful for the things he did as legatus.

I can answer that.

Emerald is also influenced by Gundam. Specifically, the AMX-002 Neue Ziel from 0083: Stardust Memory.

[Rosenstrauch]

MSQ

Oh. Um. I didn't notice that... Well, I guess that kind of works too (and would more explain the "might need to find a physical body" setup too) but... meh. Nyelbert is a nicer idea.
While it wrapped up nice enough here, it certainly seems like there will be further expansion on the Void quest storyline. I wonder if they'd even cross it over with Eden once you've completed both?

Yeah, I'd prefer Nyelbert, too. There's something sweet about a cross-world friendship like that. But it does seem like they're leaning towards Taynor. It would not surprise me if, by the end of a potential follow-up arc, they merged ala the WoL and Ardbert, with Taynor being the one to live on.

If you talk to Cyella after having completed both the Void Quests and Eden's Promise, you get the option to talk about Eden with her. She remarks on looking forward to meeting Gaia. So it's definitely a possibility.

Cryptlurker design seems strangely ominous for a final tome set. The previous sets (Ironworks/Shire/Scaevan) have all been top-tier new engineering and instead we get these ragged, weathered things. What are they meant to be? Recovered relics? Artistically distressed?

From what I remember, Yoshi-P was being a bit coy about the Cryptlurker designs, and quite a few people noted their resemblance to the aesthetics of the "Soulsborne" franchise. The Fending/Maiming and Casting/Healing sets call to mind the armor and robe designs of the Souls games, especially 2 and 3—the games had physics-enabled cloth and made pretty frequent use of it for some spectacular designs. The Striking/Scouting/Aiming sets call to mind Bloodborne, particularly the Hunter set (the default look of the game's Derplander equivalent) and Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower. I'm a bit jealous in that regard—I love that aesthetic and wish I could have it with every Job, especially DRK. Oh well.

To avoid getting deep into spoiler territory for the games in that franchise, and because I'd end up going on for a few hours if I did, I'll just say that themes of Death and Rebirth are intrinsic to the worldbuilding and lore in the Souls games and Bloodborne, which makes me wonder if this was serendipity or referential/a tribute.

But as to in-game lore? Maybe "fresh from the grave" is in vogue in Norvrandt now. We've got pre-worn jeans in reality, so why not?

It's a fine balance with primals because it's not the kobolds' deity Titan that is malicious, but the primal made in the image of the deity Titan which, despite his supposed identity as a loving father to his kobold children, has driven those children to murder and sacrifice one another in his name, while also rendering them unable to recognise that conflict.

I suppose the question then is whether defeating Ascians to protect the world is an equivalent "evil" committed in Hydaelyn's name... but at this point I don't think so. Certainly a different scale to sacrificing innocent people (either unwilling or only willing because they're tempered) to summon their protector-god.

This is true, yeah. There is a ton of cognitive dissonance abound—even in the Primals' own behavior. And there's some sad irony to be had in the knowledge that the Titan the Kobolds worship as part of their culture is not real and can't protect them, while the Titan they summoned is real and driving them to ruin under the guise of protection.

As to Hydaelyn and Zodiark, it seems like the writers steered well way from the idea that the WoL and other Hydaelyn-empowered heroes are being driven on by Her will rather than their own. But the thought occurred to me while writing this, that this isn't the case for the Ascians. That their inability to let go of the world they lost and their desire to sacrifice others to return their world to the way it was is as much driven by Zodiark's will as their own. Hydaelyn, in turn, seems completely at odds with this revelation about primals.

Maybe she's actually self-aware about her underlying nature, and is consciously fighting it through learned behavior. A bit like Paarthurnax in Skyrim. Or maybe Venat is still serving as Her heart, and hasn't vacated the premises ala Elidibus.

[QT_Melon]

MSQ


Matoya's Relict

I liked that the trusts don't solve/demonstrate the water gimmick in the Nixie battle. It was worth a wipe to have that thinking-process and realisation moment where I'd concluded that it was taking way too long with nothing happening and what if I stand in this waterspout I've been trained to avoid?

Also I generally take the set of characters that the game auto-assigns to me when I talk to the tank-trust and say I want to assemble a party... which in this case was not Y'shtola and I didn't swap her in. I should have. Will have to do it when I get my alt there.

About that...

Not quite correct - I went as DPS but G'hara actually does solve it last second, and by then it's too late.It was pretty hilarious though as the other trusts were just standing around. I noticed G'hara run to the spout and get on the platform but by then the spouts have stopped

[YianKutku]

MSQ

Lyse getting attacked at the end... I don't know what they're planning to do with that, but I have say that if they wanted to create drama for the characters without upsetting the fans, she's not a bad target - which is not the same thing as saying I want to see her (as a person in the story) get hurt, just that they might be more inclined to write something bad happening to her (as a fictional character in a narrative) than to a fan-favourite.

Also I keep forgetting that she actually was attacked. I think perhaps because we don't actually see it on screen?

I don't actually know why Lyse was the one being attacked, to be honest. Mainly because if she did get hurt, that would basically go against every characterization we've had of her both in ARR as Yda and Stormblood as Lyse as the Scion's combat junkie. A staggering thrall wildly swinging a sword at her, when she already suspects something is very wrong, is so easy-mode I can imagine Lyse in the next patch going "yeah, he attacked me, but I could easily subdue him non-lethally". This was the woman who could solo multiple Magitek Armours offhandedly back in Stormblood, after all.

There's no tension as such, other than the basic curiosity of "hey, new plot development, I wonder what's up".

So Lyse getting attacked is indeed pretty forgettable, because the outcome is (or at least should be) a given. I would actually guess that Lyse is being attacked partly because we know she'll be fine.

Eden

Ryne using the gunblade to slice into where Gaia was trapped is dramatically appropriate and all, but... how does that work in a metaphysical space? Is she actually there? Am I overthinking this? (she says while writing an essay-length post about a videogame.)

I actually wonder if this is a reference to how Thancred leapt into action at the end of Shadowbringers, crashing through whatever space Hades had fought us in. Maybe Thancred's gunblade is just that special.

I'm running out of ways to talk about ten characters.

[Scott]

Eden. I hope this Spoilertag thingy works because I never used it before and had to use google to find a code.

Finally Eden makes a bit more Sense. I always thought its kinda strange that some Airship was the reason for the Flood of light. Because it was always told it was the fault of the Warriors of Light. But now that we know Aldbert turned an Ascian into Eden it makes more sense in my books. But still........... Why dies the Ascian turn into an Airship. Yeah they told us Eden is the first SinEater. But we still can go inside Eden and it looks so Digital and just like an Airship or Spaceship. That still bothers me somehow.

[Rosenstrauch]

For spoilers, you want to use [ HB ] and [ / HB ] without the spaces.

[Recon1o6]

editing: post while typing told me how to do it

MSQ

Loved the dialogue choices. The one about looking forward to a rest and teasing graha in particular. Like seriously, can't we for once relax without interruption or more dooms.

Why can't I recruit Tataru to my fc already, or get her to replace alphinaud in the msq? Like seriously, we have an airship now thanks to her! In addition, she's good at diplomacy, spying and is a fantastic arcanist WITHOUT the carbuncle. All we need ot do is train the carbuncle a bit more. Or teach her to summon a less cowardly one.

If we ever go to sharlayan, the trials of thesis writing could have some comedy moments at the WOL's expense.

Aymeric doing what all members of the house of lords in my country do and hand over everything on a silver platter to his mates. Disappointed we didn't get more out of the meeting, not even a small chat with the vanu chief. The way it was shown in the screenshots, it genuinely seemed like we would have more to do in ishgard.

Cid's toys blowing up for no apparent reason. That made literally no sense to me and seemed to be drama for the sake of drama. Anybody with basic sense could tell him to stop overclocking the calculator and just let it run slowly.

Once again, I am severely disappointed we couldn't just do what Varis did and shoot/cast/throw/monk something at annoying obviously evil chatterbox with punchable face and be done with it. Also seriously, that single flare breath to the face and Nobody decided to interrupt lunarhut?

Partly disappointed in the direction Limsa was taken and possible pair of plot holes? I thought the bloody executioners DIDNT sign the accord, and thats why they continued to be pirates and limsan outcasts so to speak.
Second...since when were the two coastal castrums stopped receiving resupply by ship? Because that's in direct contradiction to Sorrow of Werlyt's story for this patch where the emerald weapon and its parts were shipped in secret to the base underwater.
That said, I absolutely love Merlwyb and Mistbeard here. They stole the show.
Shame to see the end of the pirate bit of the pirate nation. It was always territory that wasn't explored enough imo
The duty was fun, bit easy, but still, the last kobold ambushing was a good surprise. NGL though I was expecting the Primarch to shoot himself out of guilt, or shoot both bullets.

why the hell weren't Ga Bu's parent's corpses cleaned up from the navel? They've been there at least a week in game. Speaking of corpses, once again, I am wondering why Zenos was brought back from the dead as he only seems to exist to voice the playerbase's responses to the new ascian. Still hope we get to put him in the dirt properly and anticlimactically this time and good riddance.

The towers. So they cause tempering to garlemald. Welp, time to load up Arenvald with a few bombs or roll out the cannons because they can't be anything good and we got a cure for tempering rolled out now.

Eden

Decent story, but I'm still not quite certain I understand what the second fight was supposed to be for story wise. Mitron had explained it already.
Once again, we were too passive imo, we should have attacked him the moment he started doing something to Gaia or Ryne. It also made zero sense why Mitron returned Gaia to us.

I was very disappointed to learn that Ultimecia wasn't the equivalent of Hades for Gaia in normal or savage, or Mitron's "real" form. We've beaten down many previous FF villains, yet this time we don't for no readily apparent reason.
Given all the ff8 references, yet they said they didn't want too much ff8 fanservice. 3rd fight is literally griever if it was made from Ryne.

Eden still there after the restoration of the elements. I find that quite worrying. I also think we should hand it over to the folks in the Void quests, if it can restore a light blasted wasteland, why not a dark one...?

Werlyt

So...will diamond weapon have Zenos or not? Valens wants something he can control, rather than a beast. So he'd have to go for a different garlean really.

Valens himself...I feel so sorry for those children. Still, how the hell has he gotten that far without someone murdering him in his sleep. Alphonse in particular, if the werlyt really wanted to kill him, then he had a golden opportunity right there. Element of surprise, back turned, face quite close to burning coals for either smothering/burning or at least breaking his head on the bricks.
Any screaming would be dismissed as more of the punishment being administered given the clerk doesn't look up once.

I liked the new 14th legion engineer. She was nice and well written, same with Severa. also provided more background for Rhitatyn. Seven hells, I didn't think I could feel worse about striking him down in a few minutes at launch, nevermind less than 30 seconds these days. Livia as ever remains yandere, unneccessary and should be forgotten about till she annoys a POTD run.

Allie concerns me. I have a bad feeling she's gonna get some deus ex machina and get to the diamond weapon. She needs to be kept locked up before she does something reckless. I hope she can reconnect with Gaius though and he doesn't have to lose her. I also wonder if gaius is formenting some resentment against us because we keep having to put down his children.

Void quests

These were great, interesting to note the WOL drinking again without phobia. Maybe its because it was Giott and Cylva getting the booze, people the WOL trusts.
Really pleased Unukhalai got some screentime again, he damn well deserved it. If only he was with us in the msq too with Elidibus.

Now...why can't we push Eden through a portal to the void and fix it? It could have held story opportunities. More interestingly, Emet selch didn't help Mitron when he could have...but as soon as we started repairing the empty, if elidibus knew about Mitron's condition, then the devs missed a huge gold mine. Work with the ascians using Eden to repair the void...heroes are happy because fixed a world, Ascians are happy because their goal of rejoining the worlds is actually back on track again at last.

[RyuDragnier]

Eden. I hope this Spoilertag thingy works because I never used it before and had to use google to find a code.

Finally Eden makes a bit more Sense. I always thought its kinda strange that some Airship was the reason for the Flood of light. Because it was always told it was the fault of the Warriors of Light. But now that we know Aldbert turned an Ascian into Eden it makes more sense in my books. But still........... Why dies the Ascian turn into an Airship. Yeah they told us Eden is the first SinEater. But we still can go inside Eden and it looks so Digital and just like an Airship or Spaceship. That still bothers me somehow.

I'm going to go with a wild guess on this.

Since Mitron would go wherever he had to for his love Lohgrif, he turned into an Airship to do just that. Considering how the theme of love is prevalent in all the Sin Eaters, it's kind of a sweet/romantic symbolism. That is of course, if that is the reasoning behind him turning into an airship. Though it also being his "punishment" for trying to cause a Calamity seems pretty fitting in irony, considering he's Mitron the Chastiser.