New Content Suggestion: Unreal Dungeons

[Kaurhz]

The complaints about dungeons being braindead and "big pull and AoE down" meta are both more or less a result of how much we outgear dungeons at release. The average active player tends to outgear expert dungeons by about 30 to 40 ilevels at their release and end the patch cycle as much as 60 to 70 ilevels over. Dungeons that you start out 10 ilevels undergeared and end the patch only 10 to 20 ilevels over would be a significant change.

I also suggested dungeons that have interest and/or unusual mechanics in the areas between bosses. Can you save all the goblins before the dragons kill them? Dodge and escape the giant invincible killer Tonberries? Will you use the terain traps to speed up killing the trash packs? These are mechanics that make dungeons more than wall to wall corridor pulls.

It certainly doesn't help with the matter that we outgear them, no, but that isn't really the point, dungeons don't exactly provide a lot of challenges in the first place, especially if you manage to make BiS for a current tier, whether you do or don't incratorpoe unique challenges or points of interest, there's only really so far you can go with a dungeon without adding on a lot of development time. I feel the nr would ovelty factowear down fast before it simply becomes but another weekly chore irrespective of what challenges you may incorporate. Granted, it would give a use to those that are already in Best-in-slot, or near the effective gear cap, but if they're going to add something which necessitates Best-in-Slot, certainly would be nice if that content reflected the expected competency, for example, a savage encounter upscaled.

The beauty of Unreal trials is that it can take a significant time to complete them, even going as far as a couple of lockouts for the average player and very little in the leeway for errors, a dungeon on the other hand I just don't see the enjoyment factor being there, personally.

Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting idea, I just personally think the novelty factor for players would wear down pretty fast before it becomes simply another chore.

[Ultimatecalibur]

It certainly doesn't help with the matter that we outgear them, no, but that isn't really the point, dungeons don't exactly provide a lot of challenges in the first place, especially if you manage to make BiS for a current tier, whether you do or don't incratorpoe unique challenges or points of interest, there's only really so far you can go with a dungeon without adding on a lot of development time. I feel the nr would ovelty factowear down fast before it simply becomes but another weekly chore irrespective of what challenges you may incorporate. Granted, it would give a use to those that are already in Best-in-slot, or near the effective gear cap, but if they're going to add something which necessitates Best-in-Slot, certainly would be nice if that content reflected the expected competency, for example, a savage encounter upscaled.

A savage encounter upscale is only going to intrigue a small percentage of the player base and that playerbase is already served better by the Ultimate trials. Unreal dungeons would be targeted more towards the "midcore" playerbase that ends each patch cycle in non-BiS Augmented Tomestone rather than the "hardcore" Savage raider who ends even numbered patches with Savage on farm.

The beauty of Unreal trials is that it can take a significant time to complete them, even going as far as a couple of lockouts for the average player and very little in the leeway for errors, a dungeon on the other hand I just don't see the enjoyment factor being there, personally.

Shiva Unreal only takes a significant amount of time to complete on average because the vast majority of currently active players never did Shiva Ex on release and therefore never actually learned it. The primary goal of the Unreal series is to let the new players experience the classic Trials as current content. Upscale a more resent trial (such as Suzaku) and completion rate would be much higher and faster as the average player would be more familiar with the fight.

Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting idea, I just personally think the novelty factor for players would wear down pretty fast before it becomes simply another chore.

Considering that each Unreal dungeon would only have about a 3 month lifespan getting sick of it would be far less of a factor compared to doing the same Expert dungeon you have overgeared for 6 months in a row.

[Kaurhz]

A savage encounter upscale is only going to intrigue a small percentage of the player base and that playerbase is already served better by the Ultimate trials. Unreal dungeons would be targeted more towards the "midcore" playerbase that ends each patch cycle in non-BiS Augmented Tomestone rather than the "hardcore" Savage raider who ends even numbered patches with Savage on farm.



Shiva Unreal only takes a significant amount of time to complete on average because the vast majority of currently active players never did Shiva Ex on release and therefore never actually learned it. The primary goal of the Unreal series is to let the new players experience the classic Trials as current content. Upscale a more resent trial (such as Suzaku) and completion rate would be much higher and faster as the average player would be more familiar with the fight.



Considering that each Unreal dungeon would only have about a 3 month lifespan getting sick of it would be far less of a factor compared to doing the same Expert dungeon you have overgeared for 6 months in a row.

Honestly, if you were going to incorporate unreal dungeons, it would probably be better to have the dungeons catered towards the iLv currently seen in Unreal primals, and then have Unreal trials act like that for those with higher iLv, perhaps it could even be implemented later on in the patch cycle and give players gear that is just a cut above the savage gear counterpart on a weekly-lockout, which would then give players a chance to then bridge the gap between 1 tier to the next without needing to go ham on crafted, but instead a cheaper and more viable alternative.

As the post above really, players won't care how interesting a dungeon is, it will fairly quickly turn into something that is a means to an end, so whether it is a 3 month, or 6-month lifespan, the result will be the same fairly quickly. Not caring about how good or interesting the dungeon is, and just instead wanting an in-out reward with very little tedium. I just don't see unreal dungeons attracting the same level of attention as what an unreal trial would.

People do the extreme trials for the challenge, to experience an encounter they otherwise hadn't experienced before, dungeons, on the other hand, is a means to an end for the vast majority of players so the amount of interest you'll actually build for the content itself without it being a monotonous weekly activity is already... Besides, if you're going to not lock it behind a modicum of standards then you will very quickly turn to have issues with it, especially if tanks join and don't use Cooldowns, or if DPS end up doing single-target damage on aoe packs.. That already sticks out like a sore thumb in overgeared dungeons, let alone on a nigh minimum item level dungeon. Lord could only imagine just how much worse people would be with their attitude when people don't play according to other peoples' standards

Hell a lot of people hated Amaurot alone just because it took so long, let alone an Amaurot that would take even longer

[Gameovers]

Honestly, if you were going to incorporate unreal dungeons, it would probably be better to have the dungeons catered towards the iLv currently seen in Unreal primals, and then have Unreal trials act like that for those with higher iLv, perhaps it could even be implemented later on in the patch cycle and give players gear that is just a cut above the savage gear counterpart on a weekly-lockout, which would then give players a chance to then bridge the gap between 1 tier to the next without needing to go ham on crafted, but instead a cheaper and more viable alternative.

As the post above really, players won't care how interesting a dungeon is, it will fairly quickly turn into something that is a means to an end, so whether it is a 3 month, or 6-month lifespan, the result will be the same fairly quickly. Not caring about how good or interesting the dungeon is, and just instead wanting an in-out reward with very little tedium. I just don't see unreal dungeons attracting the same level of attention as what an unreal trial would.

People do the extreme trials for the challenge, to experience an encounter they otherwise hadn't experienced before, dungeons, on the other hand, is a means to an end for the vast majority of players so the amount of interest you'll actually build for the content itself without it being a monotonous weekly activity is already... Besides, if you're going to not lock it behind a modicum of standards then you will very quickly turn to have issues with it, especially if tanks join and don't use Cooldowns, or if DPS end up doing single-target damage on aoe packs.. That already sticks out like a sore thumb in overgeared dungeons, let alone on a nigh minimum item level dungeon. Lord could only imagine just how much worse people would be with their attitude when people don't play according to other peoples' standards

Hell a lot of people hated Amaurot alone just because it took so long, let alone an Amaurot that would take even longer

This person gets it. 100% agreed. People complain dungeons take too long as it is now. Making them harder isn't going to change them. We need more unreal trials and harder fights period.. not dungeons.