Healer Unhappiness exists on the Jap Healing Forums as well.

[SweetPete]

Give me Time Dilation back. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that skill. I guess I sorta understand why, they wanted to kill the ast/sch op meta but still. Dumbing down the healers and making them super boring is not good. I truly hope they rework each of them and bring back those iconic skills to each. Healer complaints have been crazy this expansion. They can’t be ignored anymore SE. Get it together.

[Semirhage]

Not that it shouldn't change but simply that people have to accept that there will always be a meta unless you literally make every job the same within a given role, which is not a desirable outcome. The simple fact is that as long as jobs bring different benefits to a party then there will be jobs which perform better than others in a specific environment.

Of course there's always going to be a meta, that's just how math and video games work. Where that statement has stuck in my craw in past expansions is "some healer is always going to be left out" is usually trotted out on the healer forums to mean "AST/SCH are the best and should stay that way and WHM can eat it". I'm not arguing with your statement; I've just seen that exact statement be used as part of what I'm coming to think of as the Great Healer Circular Argument, which has spun around these forums since the seventh umbral calamity. Different pieces of it get trotted out as months go by depending on the current state of the role.
- It's unfair to have lower output for more work
- Therefore more complex healers should have higher output
- Therefore AST and SCH should be more powerful than WHM
- Being more complicated is AST and SCH's identity
- Therefore if WHM gets complexity it's stepping on their toes
- Therefore WHM should be the weakest
- But don't fret, now that you're pigeonholed into having zero utility AND being weaker, I'm sure SE will find a way to fix you up so you're happy
- But don't you dare ask for more complexity or higher output, because that's AST and SCH's identity. See you back at the top of the list next patch!

I feel like I've heard the whole list a thousand times. Having your favorite job pigeonholed so narrowly is really frustrating.

[Recon1o6]

There is always going to be a meta, so you make every job have a role in the meta by bringing them up, not knocking them down. Fix problems instead of creating them

Whm/Ast Whm/Sch and Sch/Ast why was Ast left out in early HW? not enough dps or healing power, it got buffed and Ast was taken along, late HW and Sb why was WHM left out? No utility and its personal dps and healing were pretty crap as well. But they never fixed whm, no they nerfed it into the dirt. Its only after Shb destroyed the other two jobs whm were allowed in savage again.

Remember when RDM got utility after much begging? It was suddenly no longer kicked out in the group anymore if the RDM player was good.


So when 6.0 comes around, all healers should have be on a scale of dps-utility just like other jobs. If a healer is to have higher utility, they need less dps and vice versa.
Complexity is a playstyle and numbers thing. When shb launched AST was seriously underpowered- it had to run on all cylinders in dungeons just to keep up whereas Sch and Whm only needed a couple. That's an unacceptable level
But popping one or two extra buttons or having to build up to it? That is acceptable, its how other roles function. ITs why every role has a damn meter now except Ast. We're supposed to build up to capstones or burst phases.

[Mortex]

There is always going to be a meta, so you make every job have a role in the meta by bringing them up, not knocking them down. Fix problems instead of creating them

Whm/Ast Whm/Sch and Sch/Ast why was Ast left out in early HW? not enough dps or healing power, it got buffed and Ast was taken along, late HW and Sb why was WHM left out? No utility and its personal dps and healing were pretty crap as well. But they never fixed whm, no they nerfed it into the dirt. Its only after Shb destroyed the other two jobs whm were allowed in savage again.

Remember when RDM got utility after much begging? It was suddenly no longer kicked out in the group anymore if the RDM player was good.


So when 6.0 comes around, all healers should have be on a scale of dps-utility just like other jobs. If a healer is to have higher utility, they need less dps and vice versa.
Complexity is a playstyle and numbers thing. When shb launched AST was seriously underpowered- it had to run on all cylinders in dungeons just to keep up whereas Sch and Whm only needed a couple. That's an unacceptable level
But popping one or two extra buttons or having to build up to it? That is acceptable, its how other roles function. ITs why every role has a damn meter now except Ast. We're supposed to build up to capstones or burst phases.

Yeah but that with astro is a common theme we have all expansion it was in. It’s weak as hell at the start and gets way too many buffs throughout the expansion and then becomes the best healer. And white mage getting either minor buffs or no changes.

[Veis_Alveare]

- It's unfair to have lower output for more work
- Therefore more complex healers should have higher output
- Therefore AST and SCH should be more powerful than WHM
- Being more complicated is AST and SCH's identity
- Therefore if WHM gets complexity it's stepping on their toes
- Therefore WHM should be the weakest
- But don't fret, now that you're pigeonholed into having zero utility AND being weaker, I'm sure SE will find a way to fix you up so you're happy
- But don't you dare ask for more complexity or higher output, because that's AST and SCH's identity. See you back at the top of the list next patch!

The only reason I'm not putting this in my signature is because it's so long, but like very well said!

[GrimGale]

Of course there's always going to be a meta, that's just how math and video games work. Where that statement has stuck in my craw in past expansions is "some healer is always going to be left out" is usually trotted out on the healer forums to mean "AST/SCH are the best and should stay that way and WHM can eat it". I'm not arguing with your statement; I've just seen that exact statement be used as part of what I'm coming to think of as the Great Healer Circular Argument, which has spun around these forums since the seventh umbral calamity. Different pieces of it get trotted out as months go by depending on the current state of the role.
- It's unfair to have lower output for more work
- Therefore more complex healers should have higher output
- Therefore AST and SCH should be more powerful than WHM
- Being more complicated is AST and SCH's identity
- Therefore if WHM gets complexity it's stepping on their toes
- Therefore WHM should be the weakest
- But don't fret, now that you're pigeonholed into having zero utility AND being weaker, I'm sure SE will find a way to fix you up so you're happy
- But don't you dare ask for more complexity or higher output, because that's AST and SCH's identity. See you back at the top of the list next patch!

I feel like I've heard the whole list a thousand times. Having your favorite job pigeonholed so narrowly is really frustrating.

Utility=/= Complexity

I press Chain Stratagem once every 2 minutes. That's not complexity. I would love a more complicated debuff system for SCH. Something to have SCH build up to. Just like the rest of the jobs.

BLM a class with barely any party utility has a very straightforward rotation that is hard to adapt to encounters. It's simple to grasp yet hard to master. This is a class that is simple and very powerful. That's why I think its a good reference for WHM to aspire to.

I am all for giving WHM more complex rotations, more power and a good reason to stay meta. I don't think it should stay as the baby healer at all. There shouldn't be baby healers at all. I just don't want WHM to have offensive utility in the form of buffs or debuffs. I don't want healers to have the same homogenized skills.

[Semirhage]

I just don't want WHM to have offensive utility in the form of buffs or debuffs. I don't want healers to have the same homogenized skills.

If AST and SCH are allowed to hog the entire concepts of "buffs" and "debuffs" as their exclusive identities, then boy is the design space for any future healing jobs skimpy. Bravery and Faith are traditionally WHM spells.

I'd love to see what a BLM designed WHM would look like. Because Umbral Soul is an ability that clearly had more care and kit knowledge put into it than the entire healer role this expansion.

[GrimGale]

If AST and SCH are allowed to hog the entire concepts of "buffs" and "debuffs" as their exclusive identities, then boy is the design space for any future healing jobs skimpy. Bravery and Faith are traditionally WHM spells.

I'd love to see what a BLM designed WHM would look like. Because Umbral Soul is an ability that clearly had more care and kit knowledge put into it than the entire healer role this expansion.

Well I suppose I can admit it all depends on *how* they go about giving each healer utility. I wouldn't be opposed to having WHM use traditional WHM spells as long as they are mechanically distinct enough to not work like other Healer utility abilities. I don't want to see each healer be given a "now raid does more damage" button for the sake of balance.

I would have loved WHM to retain Protect and Stoneskin as a permanent raid buff and have it be unique to WHM. Less damage taken means less heal to do and more dps by proxy. That would be balanced against the offensive Utility the other two bring. They would have to heal more but also have less dps opportunities.

[Veis_Alveare]

Well I suppose I can admit it all depends on *how* they go about giving each healer utility. I wouldn't be opposed to having WHM use traditional WHM spells as long as they are mechanically distinct enough to not work like other Healer utility abilities. I don't want to see each healer be given a "now raid does more damage" button for the sake of balance.

I would have loved WHM to retain Protect and Stoneskin as a permanent raid buff and have it be unique to WHM. Less damage taken means less heal to do and more dps by proxy. That would be balanced against the offensive Utility the other two bring. They would have to heal more but also have less dps opportunities.

Even in the best case scenario with Protect and Stoneskin being free, oGCD abilities (which they probably wouldn't be) how would WHMs even use them in the awful game of Clip or Clip? that they're forced to play for every oGCD they have?

Trying to balance offensive utility with defensive utility doesn't work in a game that's all about offense. You only need enough HP to live, everything beyond that is superfluous. Even if WHM could heal/mitigate better if it isn't able to bring the numbers of SCH and AST it will still be the bad healer.

It's also ironic that a SCH (which has a "now raid does more damage" button) wouldn't want to see it on other jobs.

Maybe we should remove chain, y'know, for balance sake.

[Kabooa]

Even in the best case scenario with Protect and Stoneskin being free, oGCD abilities (which they probably wouldn't be) how would WHMs even use them in the awful game of Clip or Clip? that they're forced to play for every oGCD they have?

I'm going to blow your mind with this one.

It's okay to clip.