Job Change Suggestions for SMN

[RydiaFey]

Id be really excited if Smn could glamor our three egi into any of the six elemental primals we fight each with their own signature attack.

Have us rotate them before we trance into demi summons. Remove damage over time spells, but allow us to have our egi out during the demi summons, kind of like using our pet as our new dot. Weaving assaults instead of aetherflow to separate the class from scholar.

Let us keep ruin to signify that we are still arcanists, but have it change into different elemental aspects/buffs when we trance for some extra class identify.

[Casti_EL]

I'd like to see more Egi's available - especially Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan, Fenrir, etc.

Maybe glamour Ruin based on the Egi summoned? (I.e Ifrit it becomes a fiery blast, Titan = stone like, Garuda = wind blast, etc) Give us more of a feeling that we are connected to the Egi's somehow/harnessing their power.

Personally I'd like to see them become more support-based similar to FFXI (maybe one damage ability, and one party-wide support ability) though appreciate not everyone may like that and not the vision they have for it in FFXIV - bit nostalgic as that was my favourite class in FFXI.

[Seraphor]

Keep the three egi archetypes, but give each one an alternative glam.

Ifrit - Shiva - Zurvan
Garuda - Ramuh - Sophia
Titan - Leviathan - Sephirot

Keeps the skills more or less the same (change the colour of the effects where necessary)

I honestly don't understand why this is such a big task, when they've spent so much on Bard's performance.

[ADVSS]

I dont know, i seen one suggestion to place bahamut summon and dreadwyrm trance into the same phase similar to FB trance, and thought that would be good, since the majority flow of summoner rotation is to work up to that, but in a linear pattern, so itd give you a couple less buttons to worry about if they are just transformative based on "trance" and felt that was probably a QOL issue. Egi glamours? W/E theyre all cosmetic and do nothing to change the gameplay of summoner at all in my honest opinion. SMN will play exactly the same, whether your garuda is a blue carbuncle, or a mini ramuh, just so you understand what you're asking for in terms of "changes"(these change nothing at all, except to confirm that you really just dont like how ugly egi's are, but want to hold on to them, by changing their ugly appearance) So I really have to be skeptical of more egi glam suggestions, if you really like them that much. Personally I feel like Demi/Trance is probably the new flow of SMN, and would like to see another phase as long as they truncate the dreadwyrm phase in a similar fashion to FB phase.

[Exodus-E]

I honestly don't understand why this is such a big task, when they've spent so much on Bard's performance.

Hell, they could've gone with the "easy" (read: lazy) route with more color variations for Carbuncle, and they haven't even done that since Patch 3.5.
Anyways, I'm really hoping that we can glamour any Egi to any role...so long as it makes sense, that is (Ramuh-Egi wouldn't be an "Attacker", for instance).

(these change nothing at all, except to confirm that you really just dont like how ugly egi's are, but want to hold on to them, by changing their ugly appearance)

Excuse you?

I actually like their appearance, even finding them inspiring.
In an "abstract" sort of way.

I never glamoured my Egis into Carbuncles, and was looking forward to more of them.
So I take issue with you accusing others of finding Egis "ugly" (or not even liking them) when it's clearly not true at all.

[Rika007]

I know, right?

Yet another person who wants to eliminate Egis (completely phasing them out in favor of Demis), all while ignoring the story/lore/artwork/etc. that was created and tied around them since 2013~2014.
Not to mention one that's oblivious to the fact that each Final Fantasy game handles its elements differently.

There are ways to remove the Egi's from the jobs overall primary play style without completely destroying or retconning the jobs lore. An easy idea that's been tossed around by many people is to make the egi's into baby Demi's earlier on in the leveling process. Change their mechanics around so they behave more like Demi's with a 20 second timer and have enkindle work similar to Akh Morn and Revelation (or you could make them like the MCH Queen Automaton as a fire and forget type thing as they should be more basic). You get all your egi's at the same time as you level up and then as you go on further into the leveling process each egi get's replaced by a Demi primal trance (assuming Summoner continues to add Demi primals down the line, which seems like the route it's gonna go as the Demi's are the part of the job most are excited for).

This would not just solve the problem of how to fix the Egi's while also not outright removing them for lore reasons, but also fixes one of Summoner's other biggest problems, the leveling experience and how it feels like 4 different jobs entirely from levels 1-57, 58-69, 70-71, and 72-80. The job desperately needs a fix to it's lower level experience (several jobs do as well), and making it so players are getting used to the primary ability loop early on would help to fix that.

Other things would have to change of course. Ruin 4 will need to find another way to be proc'ed outside of Egi Assaults granting further ruin, on top of Summoner losing a LOT of it's mobility will have to be dealt with. However with the egi mechanics removed from the end game level environment that allows them to flesh out the Demi's more. Working on un-teathering Bahamut and Phoenix from the Summoner so they just stay still and do their thing would help with this, as would merging Dreadwyrm Trance to Bahamut's summoning like Phoenix so that it still has a lot more available free casts during the opener to juggle all it's OGCD's. The point is all this would be very easy to work around. They also will need to shorten the rotation between trances if they plan on adding a third Demi. As a 3 minute long loop just puts us back into the same death punishment territory that Summoner was in during Stormblood.

Look, we get it.
SMN may have some conceptual/mechanical problems as of this particular expansion.
But that doesn't mean that Egis are the main culprit, nor that they can't keep adjusting them at all (Patch 5.1 proved that).

I don't think it's a may at this point, and it isn't just this expansion. Even at it's peak popularity in Heavensward and Stormblood, people had issues with egi management. And sure while there have been plenty of complaints about other things like Demi ghosting and movement issues, dot mage not feeling like a summoner, boring aetherflow management have all popped up here and there over time, the one consistent thorn in the side of Summoner has been since day one managing the egi's. They have always been the number one complaint about summoners design, thats why they have changed so drastically each expansion. I get it, the egi's are cool and the carbuncles are cute. They can still hang around in some way or another, there is nothing stopping them from being a glamour of some kind that summoners can pull out on the side even with my idea of them becoming 'baby Demi's' early on.

And let's face it, it's not like SE isn't ready to make change because a job's lore is in the way. They ripped Bard's support kit to absolute shreds over the years all in the name and sake of Balance, not that I agree with that decision mind you, but I'm just saying that if the dev team begins to agree with the player base that Egi's are the primary problem, don't be surprised when they find a way to get rid of them. That lore protection will only last so far.

Also, I think the worst part of those suggestions is that these would lock us out of any other "potential" new Egi/Trance/Demi/etc. such as Bismarck, Ravana, or even Shinryu.

Not really. Any change to the Egi system or removal of it basically guarantee's a rework in how the job will function at it's core. They know the Demi's are the star of the show now and taking the time for that significant of a change gives a chance to rework the rotation to fit in new ways to bring in new trance's and Demi's down the line. It doesn't in anyway 'lock them out' from it.

[Exodus-E]

And let's face it, it's not like SE isn't ready to make change because a job's lore is in the way. They ripped Bard's support kit to absolute shreds over the years all in the name and sake of Balance, not that I agree with that decision mind you, but I'm just saying that if the dev team begins to agree with the player base that Egi's are the primary problem, don't be surprised when they find a way to get rid of them. That lore protection will only last so far.

And yet, said changes didn't conflict with its own established lore.
BRD is still a master archer that uses "magical music" to inspire/fortify itself and its allies.

Hell, it even kept the same songs it had since ARR (minus Foe's Requiem), just altered so they work in a different manner while still benefiting both, itself and the rest of the party.

So yeah, the lore protection "excuse" can still last so much.

Not really. Any change to the Egi system or removal of it basically guarantee's a rework in how the job will function at it's core. They know the Demi's are the star of the show now and taking the time for that significant of a change gives a chance to rework the rotation to fit in new ways to bring in new trance's and Demi's down the line. It doesn't in anyway 'lock them out' from it.

I meant "lock them out" from a cosmetic perspective, which the Egi glamour system was meant to fix (if they kept working on it, that is).

Fundamentally speaking, we're already set in terms of roles and functions for summons.

All we're missing is variety, even if it's just cosmetic.
Which is why I take issue with some of these "suggestions" that don't take into account every Primal released thus far (or will be released in the future).

[ADVSS]

.


Excuse you?

I actually like their appearance, even finding them inspiring.
In an "abstract" sort of way.

I never glamoured my Egis into Carbuncles, and was looking forward to more of them.
So I take issue with you accusing others of finding Egis "ugly" (or not even liking them) when it's clearly not true at all.

So I take it the changes to say titan egi in SB really grinded you the wrong way? It was hard to get used to the tank pet no longer tanking for you myself, which is why i feel like theyre phasing them out outright. They don't operate like they used to, janky barely follow you around anymore, often got to resummon after a boss fight, etc.

[Exodus-E]

So I take it the changes to say titan egi in SB really grinded you the wrong way? It was hard to get used to the tank pet no longer tanking for you myself, which is why i feel like theyre phasing them out outright. They don't operate like they used to, janky barely follow you around anymore, often got to resummon after a boss fight, etc.

Depends on what "SB" you're talking about.

For Stormblood?

I was one of those who was very upset/vocal about the removal of Sustain,which prevented Titan-Egi from tanking as well as it used to (Physick not scaling to INT like RDM's Vercure certainly didn't help either).

Thus, I was glad that they brought it back shortly after.

For Shadowbringers?

On the one hand, I was kind of disappointed that Titan-Egi no longer had the tank role (now having a "support" role through its Earthen Armor).
At least at first, since I ended up getting used to it in the end.

But on the other hand, I really like that Egis can no longer be targeted/damaged/killed, as well as being able to instantly summon them at no MP cost.

So yeah...

[ADVSS]

Depends on what "SB" you're talking about.

For Stormblood?

I was one of those who was very upset/vocal about the removal of Sustain,which prevented Titan-Egi from tanking as well as it used to (Physick not scaling to INT like RDM's Vercure certainly didn't help either).

Thus, I was glad that they brought it back shortly after.

For Shadowbringers?

On the one hand, I was kind of disappointed that Titan-Egi no longer had the tank role (now having a "support" role through its Earthen Armor).
At least at first, since I ended up getting used to it in the end.

But on the other hand, I really like that Egis can no longer be targeted/damaged/killed, as well as being able to instantly summon them at no MP cost.

So yeah...

So more like the Demi's we currently have