6.0 WAR adjustments I'd like to see

[Kabooa]

Again, more work than needed really, it means devs would have to go back and change every piece of fending and healing gear to exclude DH.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't just a database statement.

[Spartan_Aoues]

I would actually like to see not only wars, but game design in general go back to prev exp. I think there is more value in having tanks excel in specific situations then having all tanks be cookie cutters, right now it seems that there is no meaning full advantage to picking any tanks.

For example If we compare the four tanks, they all have 20%, 30%, reprisal, their armors all have to same stats, and almost all build the same way(or similar, ex build for damage)

Most of the raids can be cleared with only 20/30%plus inv. I would like to see more reliance on what makes your class unique, maybe fights that become easier with block vs parries vs damage reduction vs self healing. I don't consider a 5% damage variation a meaningful difference

Also there is a common saying in tank comparisons and guide videos and that is, it doesn't matter which tank you choose, so you should choose which ever looks good. I think this is bad design, and hope that they don't make it so that some tanks are useless or cant complete certain fights, but have it so that there is definite advantages and disadvantages to choosing one tank vs another.


also also there should prob revert direct hit back to accuracy, and clarify what tenacity is supposed to be?

[Absurdity]

Right, except Confiteor literally just about doubles in damage when it crit DH's compared to a standard hit, this can be significant to make or break a parse over the course of a fight. What about DRK in Delirium, which has an identical burst to WAR in terms of button presses where it's burst is "swingy" due to random rng, so again can't see why WAR has to be an exception anymore.

WAR's damage is swingy, but not in the same way that the other tanks are. Since most of a warriors dps relies so heavily on Inner Release it becomes extremely dependent on killtime. Sure, one direct crit more or less in a fight doesn't make too much of a difference but killing the boss anywhere between 45-0 seconds before IR is back up means your dps is significantly lower than if you ended a fight right after it.

The other tanks simply suffer in a different way, since their dps is more spread out they're more reliant on rng and less on where exactly in your rotation the boss dies.

and clarify what tenacity is supposed to be?

Clarifying what tenacity is supposed to be, beyond what it's description already tells you, would require them to publicly show stat intervals, which they obviously won't do. If you take a quick look at the stat intervals on Akhmorning for example you'll quickly see that tenacity is basically a dump stat for 99% of all content.

It has some limited use in ultimates but for everything else you basically only take tenacity because there's nothing better available. The rate at which it increases your passive mitigation and flat % damage increase is so atrocious compared to the other substats that there is no point in investing heavily into it, it simply exists on gear that you would've used anyway for different reasons.

[AnotherPerson]

I would actually like to see not only wars, but game design in general go back to prev exp. I think there is more value in having tanks excel in specific situations then having all tanks be cookie cutters, right now it seems that there is no meaning full advantage to picking any tanks.

For example If we compare the four tanks, they all have 20%, 30%, reprisal, their armors all have to same stats, and almost all build the same way(or similar, ex build for damage)

Most of the raids can be cleared with only 20/30%plus inv. I would like to see more reliance on what makes your class unique, maybe fights that become easier with block vs parries vs damage reduction vs self healing. I don't consider a 5% damage variation a meaningful difference

Also there is a common saying in tank comparisons and guide videos and that is, it doesn't matter which tank you choose, so you should choose which ever looks good. I think this is bad design, and hope that they don't make it so that some tanks are useless or cant complete certain fights, but have it so that there is definite advantages and disadvantages to choosing one tank vs another.


also also there should prob revert direct hit back to accuracy, and clarify what tenacity is supposed to be?

The reason why SE avoided this is because in the past, people who plays certain tanks/leveled up certain tanks would get excluded from certain fights entirely since they simply can't offer to the table what other tanks can (ex: DRK being only good at magic mitigation wouldn't work well for a boss that does only physical damage). This is very poor design choice in accessibility and ShB did it right to remove that part of the requirement with role actions since it would lock certain jobs to be 'meta' for doing certain fights and exclude the rest out.

And I'm quite sure there are plenty of people don't want Accuracy back. *Laughs in Alexander Savage with accuracy making people scream* Tenacity is Tanks scaling where they get some damage mitigated, HP restored, and increased damage values. According to the stat: The higher the stat, the more damage dealt, the more HP restored, and the less damage taken.

[HeulGDarian]

can i has perma essence of the bloodsucker, i like not needing any healers

[Lyth]

The reason why SE avoided this is because in the past, people who plays certain tanks/leveled up certain tanks would get excluded from certain fights entirely since they simply can't offer to the table what other tanks can (ex: DRK being only good at magic mitigation wouldn't work well for a boss that does only physical damage). This is very poor design choice in accessibility and ShB did it right to remove that part of the requirement with role actions since it would lock certain jobs to be 'meta' for doing certain fights and exclude the rest out.

The reason why this was a problem was because not every job brought something unique to the table. What's the point in having a "physical only" tank and a "magic only" tank when there's a tank who can do both, and better? Likewise, what's the point of giving every tank a 30% DR cooldown when there's one tank which has the same effect as everyone else, but better? When players can set abilities side by side, make direct comparisons, and see one job consistently come up on top, then you have a problem. That was the issue with both Heavensward and Stormblood.

The way around this is to provide alternate approaches to achieving the same result that are not directly comparable. How does %DR compare to a barrier shield, or to max HP buffs? How does a gap closer compare to a draw in effect, or to movement speed buffs? How does a single buffed big hit compare to an ability that makes you hit multiple times? How does lifesteal on doing damage compare to shielding that damage and restoring what you shield? How does debuffing a mob compare to a party wide bubble?

The problem is that the game designers don't understand what makes tanking fun.

[Spartan_Aoues]

Clarifying what tenacity is supposed to be, beyond what it's description already tells you, would require them to publicly show stat intervals, which they obviously won't do. If you take a quick look at the stat intervals on Akhmorning for example you'll quickly see that tenacity is basically a dump stat for 99% of all content.

It has some limited use in ultimates but for everything else you basically only take tenacity because there's nothing better available. The rate at which it increases your passive mitigation and flat % damage increase is so atrocious compared to the other substats that there is no point in investing heavily into it, it simply exists on gear that you would've used anyway for different reasons.

During the process of learning about tanks, and tanking a common theme was that you never slot tenacity, because it doesn't give much mid, and damage isn't comparable to something like dit,det,or crt. It is usually at the bottom of the recommended lists and I don't remember the last time I've seen it melded at all on the tank leader boards.

Imagine a tank specific stat that tanks actively avoid, I think that is not good game design.

On that note I would like to see more transparency into what each stat actually gives you, like actual formulas, or "stat intervals" if I understand that term right. I want them to trust us as players, and let us theory craft to our hearts content.

[Spartan_Aoues]

The reason why SE avoided this is because in the past, people who plays certain tanks/leveled up certain tanks would get excluded from certain fights entirely since they simply can't offer to the table what other tanks can (ex: DRK being only good at magic mitigation wouldn't work well for a boss that does only physical damage). This is very poor design choice in accessibility and ShB did it right to remove that part of the requirement with role actions since it would lock certain jobs to be 'meta' for doing certain fights and exclude the rest out.

And I'm quite sure there are plenty of people don't want Accuracy back. *Laughs in Alexander Savage with accuracy making people scream* Tenacity is Tanks scaling where they get some damage mitigated, HP restored, and increased damage values. According to the stat: The higher the stat, the more damage dealt, the more HP restored, and the less damage taken.

I can see the problem, if you spend the time to learn your class and lvl up just to be unable to find a group. I think what they did was go too far the other way tanks as a role feel holo, and as a class feel the same. I think the way you solve this problem is by making content that gives a clear advantage to one class but doesn't make it impossible to play other classes. Make states matter more, and give POWER TO THE PLAYERS to create builds and play styles that can solve the problems or over come inherent
weaknesses that the said content might pose.

[Spartan_Aoues]

The reason why this was a problem was because not every job brought something unique to the table.

PREACH BROTHER PREACH

[Absurdity]

Imagine a tank specific stat that tanks actively avoid, I think that is not good game design.

On that note I would like to see more transparency into what each stat actually gives you, like actual formulas, or "stat intervals" if I understand that term right. I want them to trust us as players, and let us theory craft to our hearts content.

Oh I'm certainly not disagreeing with that, Tenacity isn't a well designed stat. Even if it sometimes finds usage in early savage/ultimate prog the simple fact that you don't need more mitigation to survive a fight means that it is completely inferior to all of the more "offensive" substats.


As for more transparency, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The game doesn't even tell you what your actual critical strike chance or % damage increase from Determination is. For whatever reason players have to use 3rd party sites to know that 3713 crit gives you a 25.2% chance to land a crit, a critical damage modifier of 160.2% and that 3094 Determination give you a 10.8% damage increase.

I'm honestly not sure why SE is utterly against giving players important information on their character's power, maybe some misguided notion that being more informed would lead to toxicity?