We didn't get a deep dungeon this expansion because of Bozja

[Chasingstars]

Someone need Red Comet injection

You activated my trap card: Lost Reflect.

[ThatGuySaysHi]

And fate spamming is just so much more fun. Your point?

My point is with my original statement, Bozja has been great for fostering and nurturing a competent player base, and helping us level alt classes, all while aslo giving us Relic weapons. We don't need a Deep Dungeon because Bozja *is* the deep dungeon with more bells and whistles.

The last two Deep Dungeons have been copy and pastes of each other with a handful of room and monster variations, most of which melt until the last quarter of the tower/dungeon. You're saying that a Third one would be more fun than getting a area that offers multiple World Boss Encounters, and a Dungeon that's a somewhat more difficult than the 24-Man Raids. Those, combined with the FATEs, are on par if not better for Leveling than any Deep Dungeon.

[Darsien]

How about going to farm mobs that are not part of CE just so your Lost Finds Cache is stocked with what you need to actually do stuff? Is that suddenly less boring?

Is running Castrum over and over for the hope to get augmentation chest (which only offers haste to your gear and nothing else) while losing mettle in the process for each death that much more engaging?

Is basically doing fate trains with a few bosses sprinkled in, that once you understand them are dirt simple to do, that much more fun?

Is getting denied to a duel boss because of rng OR dying at any point in that duel something that: Promotes a healthy and social cooperation environment amongst the others in the instance who weren't picked?

You've missed my point entirely. It isn't about how "fun" the content is. It's about how engaging the content is and how it forces the player to play the game. Compare to HoH/DD, which are a set of 10 second engagements for most players who run the content, it's pretty definitive that, for the purpose of player improvement and development, Bozjan is a much healthier option than HoH/DD.

Regardless of how fun/engaging you feel the content is, or your personal feelings towards the content, it's very clear which is the better leveling option for the overall health of the playerbase and the game.

To put it simply, HoH/DD encounters simply do not last long enough for good habits to be formed. Everything on Bozjan, however, typically last long enough to allow for one to get a grasp on Single Target/AoE rotations. Even farming Fragments/Clusters can take a bit of time, and fast to complete fates quickly scale to last long enough. CEs also allow most players a good few minutes to practice their Single Target rotations, and Castrum allows for solid practice in Multi-Target situations as well.

Again, it isn't about the fun factor or if one is the lesser of 2 evils (because both aren't the best). It's about allowing people who play the game to learn how to play it, even at a basic level. This is something that HoH/DD fails to do at even the most basic levels.

[Vyrerus]

Ehh, it's probably a good thing we didn't get a new deep dungeon. It'll make the third one we get feel fresh by the time we do get it, maybe sometime in 7.0 :P

[Duskane]

i like deep dungeons but Potd and HoH are enough
Bozja is fine replacement for leveling and its not bad from what i heard
too bad these always come late so all my jobs are capped anyway same goes with ishagrd/Diadem and DoH/L

[Chasingstars]

My point is with my original statement, Bozja has been great for fostering and nurturing a competent player base, and helping us level alt classes, all while aslo giving us Relic weapons. We don't need a Deep Dungeon because Bozja *is* the deep dungeon with more bells and whistles.

The last two Deep Dungeons have been copy and pastes of each other with a handful of room and monster variations, most of which melt until the last quarter of the tower/dungeon. You're saying that a Third one would be more fun than getting a area that offers multiple World Boss Encounters, and a Dungeon that's a somewhat more difficult than the 24-Man Raids. Those, combined with the FATEs, are on par if not better for Leveling than any Deep Dungeon.

To level an alt class it needs to be 71 min. So if you start fresh with anything, you can't touch bozja with that class until you reach the min level for it. Once inside, you would want to get earrings from it (if you don't have the preorder from shadowbringers) otherwise its a slower leveling pace. And the fastest way to do that is bring at least a level 71 tank with an essence of the irregular, a lost reflect, and taking off all your gear so you deal more reflected damage back at sprites.

Which to get the Lost Reflects and Essence of the Irregulars requires farming mobs. Once you turned in 1000 appraised items you get the earrings that makes leveling 10% faster while also stocking up your Lost Cache with potions, phoenix downs, lost reflects, auto items (reraise/potion/ether).

And your encouraged to farm items instead of doing CE (including Castrum) anyway if you want things like Essence of the Ordained (or Profane), Lost Death, Lost Focus, Lost Slash, etc. Which if doing a bunch of prep work sounds familiar to Eureka, its not too far off.

As for the Castrum itself, most of the difficulty behind castrum is figuring out who goes top or bottom, then who goes where to free the 6 prisoners, then figuring out who is the 8-man party that goes fight the mini-boss. Its about as hard as normal Alexander otherwise, well except for Refurbisher honestly from the Alexander raid as if you don't have everyone understanding how to handle the Full-Metal Faust, then prepare for many wipes.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I was having fun with Bozja at first, but now I can't help but notice there is a very weird aversion to making parties inside it unless you want to do Castrum.

I want to get all of the Field Notes now that I'm Rank 15, but I might as well be the only person in the instance when I ask for a party. And that really sucks when Skirmishes scale to the number of people who do them, making them difficult to solo and basically requiring me to compete with full parties to get Gold rank. It hasn't been too bad, I'll admit, but it's a pain in the butt needing to race to a Skirmish before it's killed and do enough damage to it to get the Rank I need before larger groups kill it, only to wind up being disappointed by the abysmal drop rate that follows. I can't tell you how many times I've had to beat on Dyunbu and Sartauvoir by now.

They're just lore notes about the characters; why is the drop rate equivalent to the Gabriel mount?

[RyuDragnier]

To level an alt class it needs to be 71 min. So if you start fresh with anything, you can't touch bozja with that class until you reach the min level for it. Once inside, you would want to get earrings from it (if you don't have the preorder from shadowbringers) otherwise its a slower leveling pace. And the fastest way to do that is bring at least a level 71 tank with an essence of the irregular, a lost reflect, and taking off all your gear so you deal more reflected damage back at sprites.

The min level for it is just like the min lvl for HoH, but I don't know why you're bringing that up when you're apparently fine with HoH having it. HoH is also a slower leveling pace without the proper earrings, so again, why are you bringing that up? Fastest doesn't always mean most fun. The best way to level in PotD was to spam floors 51-60, and that was boring as hell.

Which to get the Lost Reflects and Essence of the Irregulars requires farming mobs. Once you turned in 1000 appraised items you get the earrings that makes leveling 10% faster while also stocking up your Lost Cache with potions, phoenix downs, lost reflects, auto items (reraise/potion/ether).

You can buy fragments from the market board, for really cheap I may add. Or you can exchange 1 Bozjan Cluster for 5 or 4 forgotten fragments.

And your encouraged to farm items instead of doing CE (including Castrum) anyway if you want things like Essence of the Ordained (or Profane), Lost Death, Lost Focus, Lost Slash, etc. Which if doing a bunch of prep work sounds familiar to Eureka, its not too far off.

All you really need is an Essence of the Bloodsucker/Beast/Templar and you're good to go for a lot of the place, including Castrum, since they'll help you survive easily. You're not really expected to bring anything if you're new. Lost Death isn't required for Castrum, it just makes saving the prisoners easier and faster due to the possibility of 1-shotting the guards/executioners. The prep work for Castrum is significantly less than Baldesian Arsenal as a whole.

[Chasingstars]

You've missed my point entirely. It isn't about how "fun" the content is. It's about how engaging the content is and how it forces the player to play the game. Compare to HoH/DD, which are a set of 10 second engagements for most players who run the content, it's pretty definitive that, for the purpose of player improvement and development, Bozjan is a much healthier option than HoH/DD.

Regardless of how fun/engaging you feel the content is, or your personal feelings towards the content, it's very clear which is the better leveling option for the overall health of the playerbase and the game.

To put it simply, HoH/DD encounters simply do not last long enough for good habits to be formed. Everything on Bozjan, however, typically last long enough to allow for one to get a grasp on Single Target/AoE rotations. Even farming Fragments/Clusters can take a bit of time, and fast to complete fates quickly scale to last long enough. CEs also allow most players a good few minutes to practice their Single Target rotations, and Castrum allows for solid practice in Multi-Target situations as well.

Again, it isn't about the fun factor or if one is the lesser of 2 evils (because both aren't the best). It's about allowing people who play the game to learn how to play it, even at a basic level. This is something that HoH/DD fails to do at even the most basic levels.

Dunno about you, but when I think engaging, I think of content I want to do for fun, even if its on a checklist. The 'means' if you will. Not because I simply want to get better as the primary reason as getting better is sort of the 'ends' to the 'means' of enjoying that content. If I didn't find it 'fun' I wouldn't be finding it that 'engaging' to do and would do something else instead.

Also, if its to get people to learn how to play at a basic level for their class while utilizing single target rotations and multi-target, isn't that what Trusts do while also providing a way to level your alts while in the 71-80 range?

[Chasingstars]

The min level for it is just like the min lvl for HoH, but I don't know why you're bringing that up when you're apparently fine with HoH having it. HoH is also a slower leveling pace without the proper earrings, so again, why are you bringing that up? Fastest doesn't always mean most fun. The best way to level in PotD was to spam floors 51-60, and that was boring as hell.

I bring it up as lets say you unlock any class today, how long does it take you to level that class from either level 1, 30, 50, or 60 to 71 so you can access the content to help level your alts? Sure it might seem like a no brainer if you already have your classes leveled or mostly leveled, but for newcomers the real alternative is roulettes.

With bringing up the earrings, you want even the brand-new ring if you are trying to level a class 1-30.

Sure the fast method isn't always the fun method, but have you grinded blue mage levels by yourself? I have, its absolutely more boring than doing even PotD or HoH. Its much more fun when you have someone else around.

You can buy fragments from the market board, for really cheap I may add. Or you can exchange 1 Bozjan Cluster for 5 or 4 forgotten fragments.

Really cheap huh? So spending around 47,000 to 48,000 gil for a stack of 35 Fragments of Preperation on the marketboard (1200ish gil for each fragment w/o tax) is cheaper than just grouping up Tier 5 Lightning Sprites (or Tier 4 Water Sprites) over in the southern part of the map, and getting like 40 Fragments with Lightning or 30 with Water per pull? Oh and in general I am not just poking at Preparation on Mateus, the fragments in general are easily in the 800-6000 gil range per fragment here. Better off just saving up to buy a gabriel tbh if your gonna throw easily around a million gil minimum at the market board for earrings at least here on Mateus. Who knows, might be cheaper on another world but its still just cheaper and faster to do it yourself if you come prepared.

EDITED: It literally is 1000 to 2000 gil per fragment of preparation on all of crystal (w/o tax). And this is the easiest to farm fragment when your getting 30-40 of these. So we are looking at spending 1 million to 2 million (w/o tax) gil on a pair of earrings. Nevermind the others which do actually run the gambit for higher costs like 4000 or 6000 gil per fragment.