damage buffs for MCH?

[Jirah]

Heat Blast is on 1.5 seconds cooldown. So it's 5 hits over 7.5 seconds aka the time it takes to do your standard 1,2,3.
1,2,3 combo is 990 potency combined.
Heat Blast x5 is 220 + 20 from Hypercharge = 1200. Plus you're getting extra charges on your weaving stuff, which is +150 for each Heat Blast. So, that's another 750. So it's 1950 potency total, which is double of your standrad 1,2,3. How's that "isn't even good"?

Imagine if we didnt get penalized for using the 1-2-3 during Oveaheat speed, but we do for no reason but to keep the job as simple and safe as possible hence why Heat blast is Skill fodder in the bigger picture, which is my entire point

[Wyakin]

What I like about this thread is everyone has the same opinion. Ranged dps is too low, we don’t expect it to be higher than melee or mages but it does need a significant buff upward of 5%. Movement tax is dumb and ease of job is dumb. Then there’s that one guy who disagrees with literally everyone else. He’s all alone arguing that everyone else is wrong

[Jirah]

What I like about this thread is everyone has the same opinion. Ranged dps is too low, we don’t expect it to be higher than melee or mages but it does need a significant buff upward of 5%. Movement tax is dumb and ease of job is dumb. Then there’s that one guy who disagrees with literally everyone else. He’s all alone arguing that everyone else is wrong

Yes Ranged job is low and MCH is a middle finger to the Physcial ranged DPS definition. "Making Jobs Simple" also really dum no pun intended as we seen with a plethora of jobs like healers and tanks, lets not attack people and just ignore them if theyre are dead set on being stubborn about change in a MMO of all things

[CKNovel]

Because casters still have to cast and that's more than can be said by a long shot about any physical ranged DPS.

Let me take a massive sip out of my coffee cup while I think about how to remind you that:
-40% of the SMN cast are instant and unpunishable. An additionnal of 20% instants can be punished due to how Demi-Bahamut is behaving. Even if punished during those 20% extra, SMN would still outdps ranged by a landslide.
-Less than half of RDM casts are instant on top of a very easy rotation. It outdps melees on E8S but no ranged is able to do that.
-During progress and first clears, SMN and BLM were still at the top DPS and ranged at the bottom, casting means nothing. Especially when half of a fight is about remaining still or with waaaay enough time to slide cast or strategies that involves not moving.

[Rai_Takara]

Let me take a massive sip out of my coffee cup while I think about how to remind you that:
-40% of the SMN cast are instant and unpunishable. An additionnal of 20% instants can be punished due to how Demi-Bahamut is behaving. Even if punished during those 20% extra, SMN would still outdps ranged by a landslide.
-Less than half of RDM casts are instant on top of a very easy rotation. It outdps melees on E8S but no ranged is able to do that.
-During progress and first clears, SMN and BLM were still at the top DPS and ranged at the bottom, casting means nothing. Especially when half of a fight is about remaining still or with waaaay enough time to slide cast or strategies that involves not moving.

SMN still has to cast. They cannot have 100% no cast without sacrificing DPS output. Similarly RDM cannot have 100% instant casts. Both of those casters will have to cast at some point or another and that's more than has to be considered compared to Physical Ranged where we have it the easiest.

We should be at the bottom because we can do our role the easiest and in general end up being the ones to do any and all mechanics that require a ranged person to resolve, or do you think healers should be the ones baiting twintania's fire in UCoB?

You want the DPS to be upped for Physical Ranged? Ask SE to make them harder to play. They will never buff the DPS of the role as a whole as is until then.

[Wyakin]

SMN still has to cast. They cannot have 100% no cast without sacrificing DPS output. Similarly RDM cannot have 100% instant casts. Both of those casters will have to cast at some point or another and that's more than has to be considered compared to Physical Ranged where we have it the easiest.

We should be at the bottom because we can do our role the easiest and in general end up being the ones to do any and all mechanics that require a ranged person to resolve, or do you think healers should be the ones baiting twintania's fire in UCoB?

You want the DPS to be upped for Physical Ranged? Ask SE to make them harder to play. They will never buff the DPS of the role as a whole as is until then.

Here you are again, alone arguing against everyone.

Let me explain something to you in very simple words. No one said ranged dps should be above caster or melee. Everyone said that the gap between the mage/melee and ranged is too large.

Ease of job is not a factor they or we should consider since every year they change jobs making some more complex and some easier. Mch is a perfect example of this

And for about the 49th time in this thread. Summoners can instant cast upwards of 40% of their casts and red mage over 50%. Yes they have to cast, pre-plan movement so naturally they should do more dps. But the fact remains that mch, bard and dancer are 2000 dps (10%) behind the top. That is simply unacceptable.

All we are asking for is a small buff to make the dps we do more in line with the shitty 1% party buff we bring

[Jirah]

SMN still has to cast. They cannot have 100% no cast without sacrificing DPS output. Similarly RDM cannot have 100% instant casts. Both of those casters will have to cast at some point or another and that's more than has to be considered compared to Physical Ranged where we have it the easiest.

We should be at the bottom because we can do our role the easiest and in general end up being the ones to do any and all mechanics that require a ranged person to resolve, or do you think healers should be the ones baiting twintania's fire in UCoB?

You want the DPS to be upped for Physical Ranged? Ask SE to make them harder to play. They will never buff the DPS of the role as a whole as is until then.

Physical ranged DPS attack foes from a distance. They excel at inflicting sustained damage, and also provide support for companions.

This is the book definition on the ff14 job site. take that what you will (There goes MCH defying role expectations thinking it can be on par with SAM with less skills and significantly less brain power and focus with next to no support)

To skewer Ranged dps, it needs a compromise, like support (heyo mch) and even then its a very large gap between the other roles.

[CKNovel]

You want the DPS to be upped for Physical Ranged? Ask SE to make them harder to play. They will never buff the DPS of the role as a whole as is until then.

It's funny you're saying this to me.
Because I'm complaining about MCH not having any depths quite often.

Most MCH would welcome back casting on the job.
But BRD was not designed for casts, that's why there is no voices about it.

And other jobs aren't that difficult either, it takes little practice to outdps a ranged at the same gear.

[Akiudo]

It's funny you're saying this to me.
Because I'm complaining about MCH not having any depths quite often.

Most MCH would welcome back casting on the job.
But BRD was not designed for casts, that's why there is no voices about it.

And other jobs aren't that difficult either, it takes little practice to outdps a ranged at the same gear.

heck, i for one wouldn't even mind castbars on bard as long as their were corresponding design changes that actually make casting work instead of simply slapping them on like during heavensward, though realistically i don't see it happening because they tried and failed so hard the last time.



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aside from that, balancing around "difficulty" is a terrible design practice either way .

a) its way to subjective and also just "relative" . if i know a fight as say bard and than switch to a caster i will indeed have to learn when to cast, when to move, where to maybe do slight rotational changes etc. and that will show in my performance, whereas if i switch from a caster to a physical ranged after the fact my problems will mostly be of rotational nature, not fight design, that much is true.

this however is a MUCH bigger issue after the fact compared to actually learning the fight as a caster.

if i actively play caster for a raidtier this whole "casters have to know when to cast, they have to...." holds true, it will however realistically mostly happen while actually learning the fight, this may hold less true for the absolute top of the line world first progress groups where actually handling the fight just takes priority (and even there i'm pretty sure people will start to test their limits at least somewhat early on while still progressing but lets act like they all play 100% safe).

but for any kind of normal group (and with normal i mean 95% of the raiding base at least) the whole "but casters have to learn where to optimize the fights" will happen while actually learning the fight without adding meaningfull delay to their progression.


furthermore there is no real corrolation between "difficulty" and performance inside the roles themselves, "class x is the hardest melee" or something like that hasn't translated to that class actually being ahead of their competition since the games release, they tried this out last tier with AST just to nerf it right back so theres that.

also where is the line where to little difficulty adds to much performance?
"yea, redmage has 50%+ instant casts, but it still has to cast so its at least harder than the physical ranged...." as a certain person put it, lets ignore that there is more to difficulty than positionals or castbars for a moment, but where is the cutoff to that line of thinking ?

if redmage would have 80% instant casts while out dpsing blackmage, what than ? i mean aside from being terribly unbalanced as a whole, just comparing it to the physical ranged the logic of "it still HAS to cast which is more than can be said for the physical ranged" would hold just as true... what about a 100% instant cast redmage, would we than turn to "but it HAS to be in melee range for 5% of total fight time, so its at least harder than the physical ranged ?"

"thing X" is harder than "thing Y" in itself is a useless metric even if one believes the game should balance around difficulty.
you still need to actively BALANCE around that difficulty and not just say [i'm hyperbolic here to illustrate a point before someone feels the need to correct me] "hard, 100%, normal 90%, easy 20% performance" while designing "hard" to be 5% harder than easy for example.

[Grimoire-M]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.