Do you want healers to be reworked from the ground up?

[Liam_Harper]

Another idea for WhM, would be to give it an additional DoT and a high mana instant-GCD damage ability. Such as (potencies would need adjusting):

Tornado: Instant: 40 potency DoT on all enemies, 30 sec Duration.
Break: Instant: 2.5 recast, 700 mana. 300 potency earth damage. Heavy effect with 15 sec duration (your weave/move tool, at a tax to MP)

Then add a system that causes certain GCD heals to become instant oGCD's at half mana cost once you've charged the Elemental Gauge enough.
This Gauge would increase by 3 for each DoT tick and 5 for each Glare/Break/Assize/Misery. When the gauge reaches 100 you gain an Elemental charge buff and the gauge resets (basically you could stock 1 charge). Keeping constant damage rolling and both DoTs maintained would allow you to smoothly weave in strong oGCD medica II's, Cure III's or such without dps tax. So a really good WHM could indeed do high personal damage and shoulder bulk healing, even without a buff, shield or other utility and would be a valuable co-healer.

[Towns]

Absolutely, 100% wrong. You can't balance the game around content that 90% of the playerbase will never experience.

But Savage and Ultimate are the only content where jobs actually need to be balanced.

You can have horrible imbalance in dungeons and alliance raids and it would never matter. People won't be kicked for being the "worst" healer in a roulette.

Tight job balance only matters in Savage+, and honestly only really affects that 10% of players. Designing AST, SCH and WHM to be comparable in Savage and up should be the goal. If WHM dominates in 4 man content, nobody should care. The content is still so easy that it'll never matter what jobs you bring.

[Deceptus]

But Savage and Ultimate are the only content where jobs actually need to be balanced.

You can have horrible imbalance in dungeons and alliance raids and it would never matter. People won't be kicked for being the "worst" healer in a roulette.

Tight job balance only matters in Savage+, and honestly only really affects that 10% of players..

EX Farm parties are where many people learn about job inefficiencies. In HW and SB WHM were actively being excluded from EX's.

[Crushnight]

But Savage and Ultimate are the only content where jobs actually need to be balanced.

You can have horrible imbalance in dungeons and alliance raids and it would never matter. People won't be kicked for being the "worst" healer in a roulette.

Tight job balance only matters in Savage+, and honestly only really affects that 10% of players. Designing AST, SCH and WHM to be comparable in Savage and up should be the goal. If WHM dominates in 4 man content, nobody should care. The content is still so easy that it'll never matter what jobs you bring.

Actually people would start kicking the weaker healers if it got too big a gap, Holy is amazing but its damage is balanced with the other two healer aoe nukes, E1s has been the only savage fight(this expansion) that aoes even factor in for healers(do healers aoe E8s adds? Because I've yet to see it) so the aoe skill numbers are most likely balanced around dungeon and alliance raids.

What would happen if only Holy was given a 3x potency boost(other 2 same potency as now) while keeping its stun, everyone would start trying to get Whm in parties for dungeons and most likely Sch would start being kicked while Ast would be tolerated due to cards.

People used to full on leave me as soon as we zone in back in 3.0 as I was an Ast didn't matter that I had Ravana weapon(this was all pre savage it got worse after savage was released) or full gear or say full pulls are fine I can handle, people just didn't want to take a chance with the healer that had to put in much more work than the other 2.

Healers are awkwardly designed as they are the only role purely designed around group content even tanks have a better solo design than healers do, when 90% of my entire toolkit can be ignored when I'm doing solo stuff(MSQ being the big offender here) you messed up design, we should not be fighting Ran'jit the exact same way at lv72 as we did at lv78 we should have developed on a personal level, no healer did but all tanks did all Dps did, so why can't healers.

[Raikai]

Good grief no, that scenario will, once again, leave WHM's bored which is unacceptable to the casual audience and booted out of extremes/savage/ultimate

We don't want 2/3 or 3/4 jobs to be fun during downtime and WHM not because they have more heals. Having more heals doesn't make healing any easier given how a single aoe heal fixes most incoming damage in this game.

A better scenario where each healer actually has some downtime.

WHM: High elemental burst damage, magical utility
SCH: Consistent dot damage, physical utility
AST: Card buffs
CHM: Potion debuffs

That way each healer can contribute with 2 more selfish dps and 2rdps based. WHM being a more high/low style and sch returning to being a gradual grinder.
More importantly, each one is also fun for the 90% of the playerbase that doesn't do savage.

I'm fine with that, tbh. I was only playing around the idea that they have of what a WHM niche is nowadays, but yeah, having actual utility would be great.

[IDontPetLalas]

Good grief no, that scenario will, once again, leave WHM's bored which is unacceptable to the casual audience and booted out of extremes/savage/ultimate

We don't want 2/3 or 3/4 jobs to be fun during downtime and WHM not because they have more heals. Having more heals doesn't make healing any easier given how a single aoe heal fixes most incoming damage in this game.

A better scenario where each healer actually has some downtime.

WHM: High elemental burst damage, magical utility
SCH: Consistent dot damage, physical utility
AST: Card buffs
CHM: Potion debuffs

That way each healer can contribute with 2 more selfish dps and 2rdps based. WHM being a more high/low style and sch returning to being a gradual grinder.
More importantly, each one is also fun for the 90% of the playerbase that doesn't do savage.

Uh no- who honestly wants to be a "gradual grinder"..Sounds like fun to anyone? Uh NO.

[Absurdity]

Uh no- who honestly wants to be a "gradual grinder"..Sounds like fun to anyone? Uh NO.

Keeping your DoT effects up was certainly more engaging than 150 Broil casts in 8 minutes.

[IDontPetLalas]

While I wouldn't disagree that SCH's current rotation is boring that doesn't mean being a "gradual grinder" would be a plus, even a few patches ago I wouldn't have called it a grinder (personally)- and if it would be reworked in future, then I certainly wouldn't want to be any slower than it is now.

I can appreciate that balancing is difficult, however it should take into consideration that a job should be able to run group and solo content - and that should not necessitate require changing your job because it is so painfully slow to kill anything. That's what "gradual grinder" ends up being, it's basically balanced for group content but potentially very unsatisfying for solo content.

[Recon1o6]

While I wouldn't disagree that SCH's current rotation is boring that doesn't mean being a "gradual grinder" would be a plus, even a few patches ago I wouldn't have called it a grinder (personally)- and if it would be reworked in future, then I certainly wouldn't want to be any slower than it is now.

I can appreciate that balancing is difficult, however it should take into consideration that a job should be able to run group and solo content - and that should not necessitate require changing your job because it is so painfully slow to kill anything. That's what "gradual grinder" ends up being, it's basically balanced for group content but potentially very unsatisfying for solo content.

because that was exactly SCH's playstyle from 2.0 to 4.0 that was incredibly popular? Several dots that are totalled up with the occasional burst of fester

You had 3+ dots to juggle and for most people it was good.

[ADVSS]

because that was exactly SCH's playstyle from 2.0 to 4.0 that was incredibly popular? Several dots that are totalled up with the occasional burst of fester

You had 3+ dots to juggle and for most people it was good.

YES that was the jobs main schtick. There was also cleric stance, that had "sch dots" written all over it. There wasnt just spam shit damage spells and heal at max potency. No. There was pop damage stance and deal damage while every single heal you deal is lowered by half. That worked with SCH a ton. It gave them damage phase, and heal phase. WHM, not so much. Their straight forward damage had to be deal with, and not overtime like SCH. Healing was incredibly more active in 2.0 without shit like broil an egg 2 and 3