Toxic WHM Glare spammers

[MomomiMomi]

You ask me where these numbers come from? I really go through a lot of content, including savage and extreme, I have almost all the tank achievements. More than 300 runs on three tank classes. But mostly I play as a healer. I'm not talking about an epidemic, but I'm talking about a trend that increases in proportion to the player's lvl. Moreover, my friends, who perfectly play as WHM, who mains this class, are amazed at the number of impudent people who shift the work to others or make the tank survive in a regular dungeon, which goes through in no time.

You are not 80% of the WHM that I have met. We generally play on different servers. 80% of at least 50 will be 40. Have I met about 40 bad WHM's? Exactly yes. Especially in 70-80 dungeons and raids. So bring your MP/Cast time numbers to these people who do not know how to play, they will be much more useful to them.

More than 300 runs on three tank classes, not even counting all the other content you've obviously played, and you've only met 50 WHMs?

Yeah, okay. Just admit it. You have no real metric you're using here. You're pulling numbers out of nowhere.

[Rae88]

More than 300 runs on three tank classes, not even counting all the other content you've obviously played, and you've only met 50 WHMs?

Yeah, okay. Just admit it. You have no real metric you're using here. You're pulling numbers out of nowhere.

It's because when a WHM does their job they're not really noticed in the party. Except if they're great, then they are noticed because of the sheer amount of Holys that are put out, unless the tank has limited party effects then the WHM goes unnoticed again.

It just goes back to the fact that healers are underappreciated. When healers do their job most of the time they're invisible, when they do a bad job they're noticeable. When tanks do a good job they are visible, when they do a bad job it's noticeable.

It's part of why healing is a more thankless job than tanking. At least when tanks do a decent job they're noticed.

As a healer main when I play other classes most of the time the healers do a decent enough job to pass all content. And that's WHM's included. They're just not noticed.

DPS aren't noticed either, but they don't get as much blame as healers do when things go wrong, which makes it a very relaxing role to play outside of savage :P

[Veis_Alveare]

It's because when a WHM does their job they're not really noticed in the party. Except if they're great, then they are noticed because of the sheer amount of Holys that are put out, unless the tank has limited party effects then the WHM goes unnoticed again.

It just goes back to the fact that healers are underappreciated. When healers do their job most of the time they're invisible, when they do a bad job they're noticeable. When tanks do a good job they are visible, when they do a bad job it's noticeable.

It's part of why healing is a more thankless job than tanking. At least when tanks do a decent job they're noticed.

As a healer main when I play other classes most of the time the healers do a decent enough job to pass all content. And that's WHM's included. They're just not noticed.

DPS aren't noticed either, but they don't get as much blame as healers do when things go wrong, which makes it a very relaxing role to play outside of savage :P

I think this is due to how absolutely abysmal the effective skill floor for a healer is. People are still out there defending healers who don't dps, like to be standout bad as a healer you basically have to not press any buttons at all.

So of course people only notice the real trainwrecks - they're doing such a poor job at such a basic thing it's not even funny.

[Liam_Harper]

It just goes back to the fact that healers are underappreciated. When healers do their job most of the time they're invisible, when they do a bad job they're noticeable. When tanks do a good job they are visible, when they do a bad job it's noticeable.

This is true. It's actually worse in fact, in that healbots are the most visible by far to a player who doesn't understand healing indepth. If your impression of the fight is "wow, I never came close to dying, the heals came almost instantly!" it's going to leave a far better impression to the average player than if they sat at 20% for 15 seconds unsure if they were going to live. Even though in the second case the healer had the next 3 raidwides mapped flawlessly while pushing high damage, the impression the player gets is "thank god they remembered just in time, that was close, they nearly let me die o.o". Many of my best runs I get 0 comms and some of my messiest I've got 4+ because I ended up spamming GCD heals blindly.

I don't blame the average player for seeing the healbot as a great healer. The design of the game works against healers. Optimized healing is very difficult to spot unless you understand healing, but heal spamming is very simple to understand. You didn't die, it looks great. Healer is in a very strange spot where it feels rewarding when you're inexperienced but very thankless and unrewarding when you master it.

[Ashemmi]

It's because when a WHM does their job they're not really noticed in the party. Except if they're great, then they are noticed because of the sheer amount of Holys that are put out, unless the tank has limited party effects then the WHM goes unnoticed again.

It just goes back to the fact that healers are underappreciated. When healers do their job most of the time they're invisible, when they do a bad job they're noticeable. When tanks do a good job they are visible, when they do a bad job it's noticeable.

It's part of why healing is a more thankless job than tanking. At least when tanks do a decent job they're noticed.

As a healer main when I play other classes most of the time the healers do a decent enough job to pass all content. And that's WHM's included. They're just not noticed.

DPS aren't noticed either, but they don't get as much blame as healers do when things go wrong, which makes it a very relaxing role to play outside of savage :P

This, tbh. For all the worry you hear about Healer DPS, and the OMG I was at 60%, a few do notice the effort you're putting in. In the thousands of instances I've ran, my favorite compliment is still...

[2:27](RA@Goblin) Holy shut
[2:27](RA@Goblin) ripped them up
[2:27](LD@Balmung)
[2:29](RA@Goblin) we in this *explicative*
[2:29](RA@Goblin) healer popping off
[2:29](RA@Goblin) straight carnage
[2:32](RA@Goblin) no better healer
[2:32](RA@Goblin) *explicative*

I laughed so hard...I missed a Holy.

[Saefinn]

Reading some more comments, I'm gonna come from the perspective of maining a healer. Though I play all roles.

For the complaints I'm seeing about healers not utilising their full kit. And also for those who see their health drop below a certain threshold. It is something that can make both a good healer and a bad healer. Because a good healer will optimise. The encounters in this game are scripted, meaning there's a high degree of predictability. People who want to be good at playing a healer role at an endgame level will fall into the mentality of optimising their role as a healer. As will your tanks and your DPS, you just notice on them less. As a healer you're not measured by how much you use your healing spells but by how much rDPS you contribute. Same with a tank and a DPS. Bearing that in mind of course, dead players means less DPS. So one of the things a healer will be expected to do is learn the balance of both. Meaning, they will make mistakes and errors in judgement. Just as a tank's error in judgement can wipe and a DPS's error in judgement can get themselves killed and in some mechanics, wipe. Wiping is all a part of this game's learning process.

It may mean you encounter people who're learning to optimise or people who are already at the level and doing it in endgame content.

Coming back to using our full healing kit. This is one of my gripes, not from a "why aren't players using this?" but more in how the game is designed.

Chances are if you're a healer you're not going to be making full use of your kit until you get to challenging content. Our kit is designed around high end content, meaning for other content it is too efficient. If your HP drops low, we can get it back up again quickly and if we don't perceive any danger, we may purposefully let it get low.

This problem exists because seemingly in the perception that there's too much of a DPS focus, the devs gave us even more healing tools and took away more of our DPS ones. The knock on effect is that we create a bigger down time where we're not healing and focus on DPS to the point where ~70% of your casts are DPS moves and 30% are healing ones (The 70/30% weighting isn't even hyperbole here), it means you're not really pushed to use your full kit. The other knock on effect is that DPSing on a healer is really dull because your 70% downtime feels like spamming the same thing over and over and when you have that much of a gap not healing, I think you are more likely to tunnel vision and repetition does the same.


In addition to the above, there's also a couple of healer skills that actively encourage you to let people's HP drop. Excogitation require HP to drop a certain threshold and Essential Dignity is more effective the lower a person's HP is. Then add the potency of a spell like Earthly Star, you'll likely try to time it so you can make the most use of its big AoE Cure, just sucks when somebody jumps outside of it when they're low on HP, but that's their own fault for jumping out of a healer's AoE heal. So letting HP drop also allows us to use our skills more efficiently.


Of course, some players aren't necessarily good either and that's gonna happen, but I think chances are, when people are judging how focused their healer is on their DPS and not using much of their healer kit and letting HP drop, you're most likely find most of the above. Because this is how playing a healer works in this game and for most content, your healer isn't being pushed to do much healing.

[Soge01]

I've only ever ran into 4 Glare spammers and I hate them all because they wouldn't revive anybody until they finally stopped tunnel visioning. -_-

[RajNish]

I've only ever ran into 4 Glare spammers and I hate them all because they wouldn't revive anybody until they finally stopped tunnel visioning. -_-

It's good if they finally revive. Worse, when they are not healing or reviving, the DPS and the tank do revive and heal. But of course it's easier to believe that my numbers came out of nowhere and say that the problem does not exist.

[Veis_Alveare]

It's good if they finally revive. Worse, when they are not healing or reviving, the DPS and the tank do revive and heal. But of course it's easier to believe that my numbers came out of nowhere and say that the problem does not exist.

...but dps, specifically SMN, should be the first to raise?

WHM is actually fighting for the last place spot in terms of rez responsibility, down there with RDM. With the Manafaction changes of ShB, and now the use of Reprise to burn some mana functionally built into their rotation, I'd say WHM is actually the worst choice to raise.

They need Swift for movement plus their ST nuke is the strongest potency of the healers.

Ahh, I love waking up to correcting people on the internet.

[Saefinn]

Also reading this thread...I can maybe see why SE dumbed down healer jobs. Because it seems people don't like their healers making mistakes. Going through some of these posts, it makes the problem sound more wide spread than it is. On the other hand, it shows that maybe that maybe healing jobs didn't need to be simplified if this is a thing people still complain about. Roll on 6.0, give healers more to heal so they can use more of their kit outside of EX/Savage/Ultimate and give them more to do in their downtime.

...but dps, specifically SMN, should be the first to raise?

WHM is actually fighting for the last place spot in terms of rez responsibility, down there with RDM. With the Manafaction changes of ShB, and now the use of Reprise to burn some mana functionally built into their rotation, I'd say WHM is actually the worst choice to raise.

They need Swift for movement plus their ST nuke is the strongest potency of the healers.

Ahh, I love waking up to correcting people on the internet.

Just like back in the day when BRD had a healer LB. If you needed a healer LB3, you had the BRD do it. It usually makes more sense for the DPS to do it first. It is the sole reason my friend goes RDM for progression runs in our FC and then once we've cleaned up our progression he'll swap to MNK to contribute more DPS as it is his main.

With that said if somebody is just laying there dead and you have an opportunity to raise and somebody else isn't getting it, of course, better to get it.

It's good if they finally revive. Worse, when they are not healing or reviving, the DPS and the tank do revive and heal. But of course it's easier to believe that my numbers came out of nowhere and say that the problem does not exist.

I would pose the question also, are the DPS and tank healing because they think they have to or because the healer is letting them get close to death (or even letting them die) and aren't trying to heal? The latter I see less of. The former I see more. If in a PUG and you don't know the healer, I can perhaps get people might play it safe seeing their health drop because they don't know if they healer is being resourceful or not. At the same time, there are people who'll cast Clemency at 70% health with no incoming tank busters because there is some perception that your health has to be at 100% all the time, which in a way is fair enough if you've not got the hang on some of the game's predictability and don't want to risk it. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad or lazy healer.