Toxic WHM Glare spammers

[RajNish]

I've only ever ran into 4 Glare spammers and I hate them all because they wouldn't revive anybody until they finally stopped tunnel visioning. -_-

It's good if they finally revive. Worse, when they are not healing or reviving, the DPS and the tank do revive and heal. But of course it's easier to believe that my numbers came out of nowhere and say that the problem does not exist.

[Veis_Alveare]

It's good if they finally revive. Worse, when they are not healing or reviving, the DPS and the tank do revive and heal. But of course it's easier to believe that my numbers came out of nowhere and say that the problem does not exist.

...but dps, specifically SMN, should be the first to raise?

WHM is actually fighting for the last place spot in terms of rez responsibility, down there with RDM. With the Manafaction changes of ShB, and now the use of Reprise to burn some mana functionally built into their rotation, I'd say WHM is actually the worst choice to raise.

They need Swift for movement plus their ST nuke is the strongest potency of the healers.

Ahh, I love waking up to correcting people on the internet.

[Saefinn]

Also reading this thread...I can maybe see why SE dumbed down healer jobs. Because it seems people don't like their healers making mistakes. Going through some of these posts, it makes the problem sound more wide spread than it is. On the other hand, it shows that maybe that maybe healing jobs didn't need to be simplified if this is a thing people still complain about. Roll on 6.0, give healers more to heal so they can use more of their kit outside of EX/Savage/Ultimate and give them more to do in their downtime.

...but dps, specifically SMN, should be the first to raise?

WHM is actually fighting for the last place spot in terms of rez responsibility, down there with RDM. With the Manafaction changes of ShB, and now the use of Reprise to burn some mana functionally built into their rotation, I'd say WHM is actually the worst choice to raise.

They need Swift for movement plus their ST nuke is the strongest potency of the healers.

Ahh, I love waking up to correcting people on the internet.

Just like back in the day when BRD had a healer LB. If you needed a healer LB3, you had the BRD do it. It usually makes more sense for the DPS to do it first. It is the sole reason my friend goes RDM for progression runs in our FC and then once we've cleaned up our progression he'll swap to MNK to contribute more DPS as it is his main.

With that said if somebody is just laying there dead and you have an opportunity to raise and somebody else isn't getting it, of course, better to get it.

It's good if they finally revive. Worse, when they are not healing or reviving, the DPS and the tank do revive and heal. But of course it's easier to believe that my numbers came out of nowhere and say that the problem does not exist.

I would pose the question also, are the DPS and tank healing because they think they have to or because the healer is letting them get close to death (or even letting them die) and aren't trying to heal? The latter I see less of. The former I see more. If in a PUG and you don't know the healer, I can perhaps get people might play it safe seeing their health drop because they don't know if they healer is being resourceful or not. At the same time, there are people who'll cast Clemency at 70% health with no incoming tank busters because there is some perception that your health has to be at 100% all the time, which in a way is fair enough if you've not got the hang on some of the game's predictability and don't want to risk it. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad or lazy healer.

[RajNish]

I would pose the question also, are the DPS and tank healing because they think they have to or because the healer is letting them get close to death (or even letting them die) and aren't trying to heal? The latter I see less of. The former I see more. If in a PUG and you don't know the healer, I can perhaps get people might play it safe seeing their health drop because they don't know if they healer is being resourceful or not. At the same time, there are people who'll cast Clemency at 70% health with no incoming tank busters because there is some perception that your health has to be at 100% all the time, which in a way is fair enough if you've not got the hang on some of the game's predictability and don't want to risk it. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad or lazy healer.

It was Bunker. Our WHM used nothing but Glare. At some point, another alliance deployed their boss on us, so we were all dead. The healer of another alliance resurrected the WHM, he resurrected me, and continued to use only Glare. It wasn't 70% HP. It was an urgent resurrection/heal after a wipe, in which he did nothing just dpsing. Please stop making excuses for really bad players.

[Veis_Alveare]

It was Bunker. Our WHM used nothing but Glare. At some point, another alliance deployed their boss on us, so we were all dead. The healer of another alliance resurrected the WHM, he resurrected me, and continued to use only Glare. It wasn't 70% HP. It was an urgent resurrection/heal after a wipe, in which he did nothing just dpsing. Please stop making excuses for really bad players.

With the way so many flaws keep getting pointed out in your arguments and there are such rampant inconsistencies in your attempted statistics it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Plus you have yet to address how you were aware he had Swiftcast up. Were you running a third party tool to track the CDs of other players? Cause that's about the only way I could see it.

If you expect people to hard raise you're going to be disappointed by most competent healers, since most won't unless there's a good reason. Tank down and theres a buster coming? Many players down before a stack marker? Cohealer down when you aren't confident in your own ability to solo heal? Those are the only reasons to hard raise in casual content imo, other than the off chance a truly god-tier dps happens to go down and I know I'll have time to complete the cast.

Otherwise... yeah, keep on Glaring. That's what you should be doing.

[Saefinn]

It was Bunker. Our WHM used nothing but Glare. At some point, another alliance deployed their boss on us, so we were all dead. The healer of another alliance resurrected the WHM, he resurrected me, and continued to use only Glare. It wasn't 70% HP. It was an urgent resurrection/heal after a wipe, in which he did nothing just dpsing. Please stop making excuses for really bad players.

I'm not making excuses for bad players. One, some of those players are genuinely learning and are making mistakes. Two, I agree bad players exist, it's just a fact of life. And three, sometimes people misconstrue what a healer is doing as being a bad healer as I've seen reading from some of the posts in this thread - and heck some people think a healer that does any DPS is a bad healer (I've been told off for DPSing before now, although my healing was fine).

But on the "bad player" front when it comes to healers I don't think it's an issue as wide spread as people make out and sadly, I think this hyperbole of it being such a problem that it is the kind of thing that the devs can look at healing as a role and think "how can we make this easier so fewer people don't play it badly?" With how healers play following ShB changes, I'd hate to see them think they'd need to lower the bar further on healer complexity and do something crazy and stop healers from contributing to DPS altogether and watch as playing a healer role in this game is dead boring because of that aforementioned ~30% up time for most content.


But my reply to you opened with a question, rather than making assumptions about your run. And communicated what I tend to find. I know bad players exist. So by no means am I making excuses for them. In your case, maybe he did have the wrong priorities and was a bad healer. I would probably be of the frame of mind of asking the healer, because if I see something that don't seem right that's making a run not go well, I usually try to help them out and learn. At the same time you can ascertain whether they're an idiot, somebody with a bad attitude, somebody who genuinely screwed up/made a mistake/had an error in judgment etc or if there is something you hadn't considered about that situation.

[RajNish]

I'm not making excuses for bad players. One, some of those players are genuinely learning and are making mistakes.

No, it doesn't look like this person is studying. It looks like he went to this raid to be a green DPS and get his loot.

[Veis_Alveare]

No, it doesn't look like this person is studying. It looks like he went to this raid to be a green DPS and get his loot.

Does everyone love how this guy just fails to answer any actual, direct questions and can only respond with assumptions he makes?

You know what they say about assumptions...

[Liam_Harper]

No, it doesn't look like this person is studying. It looks like he went to this raid to be a green DPS and get his loot.

"This person"? I thought there was an army of 80% Glare spamming 0 heal White Mages, now it's a single bumpy run in Puppets Bunker?

[Saefinn]

No, it doesn't look like this person is studying. It looks like he went to this raid to be a green DPS and get his loot.

Given I was not referring to your one case but people in general, it makes me concerned that this 80% was actually just a bad Puppets Bunker run you had a poor experience with and tied in with other bad content runs you've had to come up with a really hyperbolic statement.

And my posts have been about people in general.

There can be multiple explanations as to why a healer hasn't done what you expect them to do in a given situation. Me? When I have party member do that, I talk to them. And I find that I get a huge mix of people. I get those who made an error in judgement, those who weren't thinking straight, those who thought they did the right thing or what was expected, that somebody else was on it, that they didn't notice something, that they tunnel visioned, that they are new and still learning, that they panicked, and most of the time I find people are responsive.

But I also get people who say that they don't care, that I don't pay their sub, that I shouldn't tell them how to do their job, ignore me, call me a bad name and so on. And cases where they seem to listen but don't improve.

So I am curious how you've ascertained in your huge percentage of cases that it was a toxic person who wants to only green DPS.


To draw a couple of example: a tank let me die in Titania yesterday, he went to DPS instead of take Puck off of me. I died, the other healer died. We wiped. I told the tank he should have been tanking Puck instead of focusing DPS. He simple said "I thought the other tank had it". Second pull, we complete it no problems.

The other example, I've had a tank before where they did do any of their tank mechanics, I tried to explain this to them and they told me I don't pay their sub and started to get abusive, we kicked and replaced him.

Both cases the tank did not do their job. Both cases we got wipes. One made an error in judgement, the other was an idiot with a crappy attitude. Both had different outcomes, one learned, one refused to.

Given one of the roles of a healer in this game is to green DPS, which is in this game's design. Is it not reasonable that in your army of people who green DPS that maybe not as many you think are bad or are toxic healers but people trying to do their job but are susceptible to human error?

Because I tend to find most healers aren't that bad. Given your use of hyperbole and you making assumptions, I feel it's likely that what's flawed here is your assessment on those healers you've had.