Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Melichoir]

I mean...the GAME isn't being limited. Just a race is being kept consistent (for now)
Thats not limiting, its not like we've ever seen one to begin wit in any past FF game so...



Its just gonna happen, unless conversation about Male Viera is locked, or just outright stops, these exact same conversations will always come back up. There IS in fact nothing to talk about, so we are Always gonna keep rehashing the same conversations.
Now True, FFXIV is not an Ivalice game. But the Viera are an Ivalice Race. And Ivalice is in FFXIV. Its still Ivalice, and they are still Viera. Viera are still from Ivalice.
So...yeah. lol
The only reason I pick on Viera to stay consistent, is because they don't exist outside of their Source. At least yet.
Most other things like say Ifrit and Bahamut are used and adapted many different times throughout the franchise, so its nothing different and new that they did so again.
Viera have never been used again outside of Vialice.



Viera are from Ivalice, another timeline doesn't change that what so ever. Ivalice IS still Ivalice. So yes, timeline doesn't matter, the lore is still the same.
This isn't what benefits Me or my argument, this is just a simple fact. Its not like the Viera change unless its been established that they are actually different. Which as far as I can tell hasn't happened yet. YET.
Even on the 1st they are kept the same. And its not like its said that the males were wiped out or anything. So unless something is said, the Viera worked the same on the 1st and on the Source, and from their source.

You apparently dont get it. If the timeline doesnt matter, its not the same 'Ivalice' that you are quoting lore from. What helps establish it being the same Ivalice is the order of which things occur. If things arent occuring in the correct order, that changes a lot of hte background information of the place. Claiming its teh same despite different timelines implies that it isnt the same due to it having a different 'history' than what youre quoting. Similar, sure you can argue that, but it is not the same Ivalice. Which is probably good because that actually gives Devs breathing room to modify lore - which they should.

Second, FFXIV isnt a continuation from the original FFXII. Thats been established.

Lastly, you missed my point. It's the fact that they ARE the same on the first as well as on the source thats the issue. Why are they the same when every single race gets different treatment lore wise because they have different histories. This is an inconsistency within FFXIV world building, which comes up specifically because they just dropped FFXII lore into FFXIV without any large adjustments. From a lore perspective, Viera is the outlier in FFXIV. And the reason theyre an outlier is because of meta reasons - the devs didnt create male viera and split the new races between HrothGar and Viera. To explain no male viera, they just ran with FFXII lore, even if it doesnt fit within FFXIV pre-existing lore and world building.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

You apparently dont get it. If the timeline doesnt matter, its not the same 'Ivalice' that you are quoting lore from. What establishes it being the same Ivalice is the order of which things occur. If things arent occuring in the correct order, that changes a lot of hte background information of the place.

Second, FFXIV isnt a continuation from the original FFXII. Thats been established.

Lastly, you missed my point. It's the fact that they ARE the same on the first as well as on the source thats the issue. Why are they the same when every single race gets different treatment lore wise because they have different histories. This is an inconsistency within FFXIV world building, which comes up specifically because they just dropped FFXII lore into FFXIV without any large adjustments. From a lore perspective, Viera is the outlier in FFXIV. And the reason theyre an outlier is because of meta reasons - the devs didnt create male viera and split the new races between HrothGar and Viera. To explain no male viera, they just ran with FFXII lore, even if it doesnt fit within FFXIV pre-existing lore and world building.

You're right, I don't get it, what does a timeline change? If its in Ivalice, its stilll Ivalice. Nothing changes. Unless something IN the timelane changes, which in canon has not happened.
I think you should go from timeline, to setting, or Universe. Maybe then your argument would work better, because it would make more sense to argue Ivalice in a different universe. But remember we went to a different world entirely, and things are still the same with Viera...so far

The Viera don't have different history. So theres no issue other then people just want it changed cause they want Male Viera.
Why is it wrong if they treat the Viera the same and keep their lore consistent, especially if they are the ONLY playable race that does this? Like legit, why is Viera so special on this when this is the way its always been for them.
I guess it would be interesting if they were different on the 1st, maybe we could have at least seen a Male over there, but then we all know that if we see them but cant play them the uproar would be just as bad but not worse, especially if we got Female Hrothgar.

The most Im getting here is maybe they should have stayed on course and not put in Viera, (since apparently that was the plan) because their lore and how they function seem to conflict with the playerbase so strongly. Like the world can function with them just fine, but its the playerbase thats struggling with it.
Idk. lol

[Melichoir]

You're right, I don't get it, what does a timeline change? If its in Ivalice, its stilll Ivalice. Nothing changes. Unless something IN the timelane changes, which in canon has not happened.
I think you should go from timeline, to setting, or Universe. Maybe then your argument would work better, because it would make more sense to argue Ivalice in a different universe. But remember we went to a different world entirely, and things are still the same with Viera...so far

Think of it this way: The history of the US isnt the history of the one we live and breath if the US came into existence before Britain was a country. The order which events take place affects how things work down stream of them. If you are talking about the lore of Ivalice specific to FFXII, it happens in a certain order. If the 'history' of ivalice happens in a different order in FFXIV, it is not the same Ivalice as 12, and should be expected that some elements of the lore are not the same. If you quote Lore from a game where the lore of that game ISNT the identical lore (as in the world of FFXIV takes place in FFXII's future), then quoting that lore is pretty damn moot as a talking point.

What you are quoting isnt lore. Youre quoting a concept of what viera should be based on lore from another game. But the key sticking point is FFXIV doesnt have to, and shouldnt, adhere to lore from anotehr game because teh lore from 12 doesnt fit within 14 because concepts and ideas that establish the 'rules' of the FFXIV's world are not consistent with 12s.

The Viera don't have different history. So theres no issue other then people just want it changed cause they want Male Viera.

As I said, they dont have a different history cause they copy/pasted FFXII's lore into XIV. It's not cause it was carefully crafted and designed to be this way, it was literally "Oh Viera from 12, well here we are in 14 with them cause nostalgia from another FF title and meta design reasons." Even when they handle homages to previous FF titles, they are not 100% copy pastes. They are altered to fit within FFXIV to some extent cohesively. The lore surrounding Viera does not do this.

Why is it wrong if they treat the Viera the same and keep their lore consistent, especially if they are the ONLY playable race that does this? Like legit, why is Viera so special on this when this is the way its always been for them.

Because it doesnt fit within 14. That the problem. If the lore was remodeled to give a reason why they are the way they are and the concepts are consistent, it woudl be fine. But they didnt do this. And what I mean by consistent is that Viera get the same kind of treatments lore wise as other races. In ShB, if the background cultures of all the races are different between the first and the source, viera should also be the same.

I guess it would be interesting if they were different on the 1st, maybe we could have at least seen a Male over there, but then we all know that if we see them but cant play them the uproar would be just as bad but not worse, especially if we got Female Hrothgar.

Yes, this is correct. And I can understand that from a design stand point. In fact this is exactly the go to real reason why you only see female Viera and Male Hrothgar. Its because Meta design choices made it so, not because of carefully crafted narratives or lore. The lore that is in game currently is more like a stop gap - something they pushed in cause its all they had to explain things. Not because it was optimal or fit. Specifically in this case, lore was downstream from design by a long shot. And thats the problem.

The most Im getting here is maybe they should have stayed on course and not put in Viera, (since apparently that was the plan) because their lore and how they function seem to conflict with the playerbase so strongly. Like the world can function with them just fine, but its the playerbase thats struggling with it.
Idk. lol

It is literally a situation of "Its fine as long as you dont htink about it." And I dont mean like trying to give a detailed scientific explaination for how a person can create a fireball or something. It's literally basic concepts of believable civilizations fall apart immediately with even a small bit of thought. As I pointed out earlier, The world is on the verge of annihilation and absolutely no male viera thought "Damn, maybe I should go to the Chrystarium or Eulmore and see if I can find a solution for my people." Not a single one. Female Vieras seem fine with this happening, but not one male viera looked at the extinction of their people and thought maybe the customs of their people were kind of a hindrance?

Hell male vieras dont even show up when you venture deep into Viera territory on the first. The females show up to engage you. What happened to the males protecting things?


Every race and sex has agency to make decisions that would make them outliers....except male viera, cause lore. The lore worked fine in a more contained experience of 12, but it does not fit with how 14 operates. The very least is they needed to come up with new lore reasons why Viera males arent around.