Question: Relics first? Extreme primals last?

[Driavna]

I'm only using the same amount of effort you're using in claiming that it is casual content. Casuals are not the ones clearing Seat of sacrifice, that much I can guarantee you, unless they're carried by 7 non-casuals.

I'm a casual player and I cleared it. The friend I generally play with is an extremely casual player (only has one class leveled up to 80 for example) and FFXIV is his first MMO. He also manages to clear all extremes fights so far in this expansion (and a few savage too).

[Amnmaat]

I'm a casual player and I cleared it. The friend I generally play with is an extremely casual player (only has one class leveled up to 80 for example) and FFXIV is his first MMO. He also manages to clear all extremes fights so far in this expansion (and a few savage too).

People that can clear extremes are the same ones that can clear all savage (except maybe the 4th duty). Savage raiders are considered the "hardcore crowd."
Just because you think you're casual doesn't meant that you really are.
Also, I'm not talking about you and your friend clearing Hades now in patch 5.3. I'm talking about casuals clearing things like Hades and Seat of sacrifice when they're relevant, the first 2 months they come out.

[Driavna]

People that can clear extremes are the same ones that can clear all savage (except maybe the 4th duty). Savage raiders are considered the "hardcore crowd."
Just because you think you're casual doesn't meant that you really are.

You are mixing being casual with being "not good" at the game.


P.S: We cleared extremes when it was relevant.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You are mixing being casual with being "not good" at the game.


P.S: We cleared extremes when it was relevant.

Once again, it's people having 2 opinions on what denotes "casual, mid core, hardcore"


To me it's always been time spent. Casual players spend the least amount of time playing while hardcore players spend the most.


I am a hardcore player, but a casual raider.

I have 3 2.5 hour raid nights. I have cleared the 4th savage floor, and am doing ultimate. But I am not in a hardcore or even midcore static. We are casual.


However, I am definitely hardcore when it comes to xiv in general. I have 15000 hours logged on my character since 2010, I play most days. I have done nearly all content available. Been to nearly every fanfest.

[Driavna]

Once again, it's people having 2 opinions on what denotes "casual, mid core, hardcore"


To me it's always been time spent. Casual players spend the least amount of time playing while hardcore players spend the most.


I am a hardcore player, but a casual raider.

I have 3 2.5 hour raid nights. I have cleared the 4th savage floor, and am doing ultimate. But I am not in a hardcore or even midcore static. We are casual.


However, I am definitely hardcore when it comes to xiv in general. I have 15000 hours logged on my character since 2010, I play most days. I have done nearly all content available. Been to nearly every fanfest.

My main thing here is people mixing casual/hardcore (the time you are willing to commit) with the personal skill level required to clear something.

Examples of hardcore content:

- SKybuilders ranking
- Hunt achievements

[Amnmaat]

You are mixing being casual with being "not good" at the game.


P.S: We cleared extremes when it was relevant.

No I don't. You can't just bring any level 80 out of the streets and clear Seat of Sacrifice with them. It takes a more dedicated type of player to clear that trial, thus not a casual.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

No I don't. You can't just bring any level 80 out of the streets and clear Seat of Sacrifice with them. It takes a more dedicated type of player to clear that trial, thus not a casual.

No, that's just skill. You can play the game very seldomly and be skilled, just like all the people who play lots and aren't skilled.


We need to stop using terms that apply to time spent as skill level.


We need to stop calling bad players casuals. We need to go back to calling them what we should have been all along. The unskilled players.

[Amnmaat]

No, that's just skill. You can play the game very seldomly and be skilled, just like all the people who play lots and aren't skilled.


We need to stop using terms that apply to time spent as skill level.


We need to stop calling bad players casuals. We need to go back to calling them what we should have been all along. The unskilled players.

Indeed, the mmorpg community has had a really hard time with these terms.
I'll agree the skilled/unskilled definition of the 2 types of players that exist in mmos. However, people act dumb, they know things like extremes are not meant for the "unskilled," which is the majority of the subscribers. Which in turn is why they should give them something to do first, they're the first kind of people that will let the subscriptions lapse, as they are not that dedicated to the game in the first place.

The "skilled" ones are the ones who live at the bleeding edge, who can still do Eden 8 savage until the Extremes come out 2 months later.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Indeed, the mmorpg community has had a really hard time with these terms.
I'll agree the skilled/unskilled definition of the 2 types of players that exist in mmos. However, people act dumb, they know things like extremes are not meant for the "unskilled," which is the majority of the subscribers.

The problem is that skill is a spectrum not a binary and not all casuals are unskilled and not all hardcore players are skilled.

The Casual/Hardcore descriptions was originally present as a description of how a player participated in content rather than an amount played description. You can play a game casually nearly constantly (like a fair amount of RPers) and you can play a game hardcore for a limited amount of time each week (like many savage raiders and PvPers).

The main problem is that some players do not want to be considered "Hardcore" due to the negative connotations associated with the term (things like "no life," "elitist," etc.) which is how you end up with Hardcore raiders who consider them selves Casuals because they "only" spend 7.5 hours each week reclearing the current raids.

Which in turn is why they should give them something to do first, they're the first kind of people that will let the subscriptions lapse, as they are not that dedicated to the game in the first place.

Subscriptions lapsing happens even with Hardcore players. A fair number of Hardcore raiders actually stop playing after their statics have gotten all the gear they need until the next big Ultimate or Savage raid comes out.

Casual players on the other hand are more likely to actually have stuff they are slowly doing without rushing.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I'm a casual player and I cleared it. The friend I generally play with is an extremely casual player (only has one class leveled up to 80 for example) and FFXIV is his first MMO. He also manages to clear all extremes fights so far in this expansion (and a few savage too).

You and your friend are what is know as "Midcore" in actuality not "casuals."