FFXIV is too simplistic and bland

[Daniolaut]

Really? The big reason was demand? Not the lag ridden, little to no content, fatigue system plagued game? Just the demands and everything else was secondary?

The ONLY reason it saw an uptick near the end were: It became F2P after you bought the base game and a certain popular dev took over. The fact that you just got so much wrong to try and support your failed argument, then tried to tell someone to not talk about things they were not around to experience, is laughable. You're the worst troll the forum has.

Only reason I'm responding is to make sure passers by have the real facts. I hope you reach a point in your life that you aren't so sad as to stir up stuff on an internet forum for fun.

Really? I literally said those exact things.

I said the "reasons" plural.

Those were all the main reasons, the ones that I mentioned. I can only name one thing first, and yes, if you cant even play a game, then you cant experience the lag and everything else.

The "uptick" stayed after FFXIV 1.23b was no longer free to play. Again, you're also talking out of experience.

(edit and before someone tries to "aruge" that "1.23b was never free to play". I"m using 1.23b as a catch all version. I dont recall exactly what patch Yoshida took over. But 1.23b was not free to play. Version 1.0 was free to play, sometime after Yoshida took over, then he re-initiated the monthly subscription, and added the legacy campaign.)

FFXIV was not free to play once Yoshida took over until 2.0. There is a thing called Legacy status, which required you to have paid 3 months during version 1.0 prior to the release of 2.0, while Yoshida was running the game. I repeat, you're talking out of experience.

Its not trolling when I share my thoughts, and use facts. You're completely refusing to say anything that I havent already said, and you're also aggressive when I'm not aggressive at all. I'm not trolling, thats just a word you're all using when you fail to make valid points or to stay on topic.

I mean literally I said those exact things, and then you said the things I said are not reasons. When I am the person who said those very things. I'm sorry, but your logic is not even logic.

Edit:
I just read your "response" at the end ... that is completely uncalled for, and I never once comment for the reasons you imply. No joke. No troll. No sarcasm. Dead serious. I post here the things I think about. I wrote all this because the more I've been playing XI lately and not playing XIV, I get more and more annoyed at the thought of turning XIV back on. The problem is I just paid 6 months of sub for XIV, and I know if I dont keep my sub I lose my house. Which on that very topic, Yoshida said would never happen (housing being tied to your sub)

Here I"ll even link it for anyone who tries to argue that he never said it wouldnt be tied to your sub...
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-%2810-30-2013

Edit of edits.
I forgot to finalize my point. I'm annoyed that I just subscribed for longer, even though I know I "have to" when I see the potential of FFXIV, it so easily can be better, but I feel there is not even really an attempt at being made. I see them only focusing on getting new players, instead of keeping the ones they have.

You don't need to have been around during 1.0 to know how clunky, unintuitive, needlessly complicated, and all the lack of basic QoL functionality during it. There's plenty of resources out there that have archived and compiled various features and tidbits from 1.0.

My biggest point: You mean to tell me having unlimited access to teleports is too bland when there's things like timed gathering nodes and fates that can take most of their timer to do? Because in 1.0 you had limited teleports and all the maps were bigger than post-HW iirc.

I never said unlimited teleports are a bland feature.

What could make travel, and the aspect of gathering you mentioned more enjoyable, if the nodes being spaced apart so that a mount is not the most viable method for reaching nodes.

This way the player can choose to use the mount music without having to hear it be an incessant spam fest while gathering. (this is actually the only reason I ever turn off mount music. Otherwise I'd leave it on. I simply cannot get sick of the chocobo/mount music. There is already an option to turn off the music, which is also a good feature. The entire game is not bland. I just am pointing out the parts that are.)

To enhance travel itself, they could add cutscenes for all zoning, while using something such as a boat or airship. They can even add an actual boat in certain instances, such as the one in Upper La Noscea, or going to the "island" (spoilers) in Lakeland. I personally watch the cutscenes each time. They could also have a feature where you pay more gil to skip what I'm about to mention. Express airship, and normal airship. Normal Airship, you go to the dock, wait for the ship, ship arrives, you choose to board, and then you get said cutscene. Similarly to version 1.0. They could make the game very engaging, and very optional, but they choose to just water it down to nothingness. No this is not the perfect answer, Its just one that was already there, and they are choosing the easy brainless option, and in my opinion it hurts the game.

I am already well aware, that others dont notice this. With that said, its the very reason I choose to play Final Fantasy games over other games. Other games completely fail to deliver in terms of quality, and this entry in the series is going that same route, and I'm expressing my displeasure.

[SomeRandomHuman]

You don't need to have been around during 1.0 to know how clunky, unintuitive, needlessly complicated, and all the lack of basic QoL functionality during it. There's plenty of resources out there that have archived and compiled various features and tidbits from 1.0.

My biggest point: You mean to tell me having unlimited access to teleports is too bland when there's things like timed gathering nodes and fates that can take most of their timer to do? Because in 1.0 you had limited teleports and all the maps were bigger than post-HW iirc.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Really? I literally said those exact things.

I said the "reasons" plural.

Those were all the main reasons, the ones that I mentioned. I can only name one thing first, and yes, if you cant even play a game, then you cant experience the lag and everything else.

The "uptick" stayed after FFXIV 1.23b was no longer free to play. Again, you're also talking out of experience.

FFXIV was not free to play once Yoshida took over until 2.0. There is a thing called Legacy status, which required you to have paid 3 months during version 1.0 prior to the release of 2.0, while Yoshida was running the game. I repeat, you're talking out of experience.

Its not trolling when I share my thoughts, and use facts. You're completely refusing to say anything that I havent already said, and you're also aggressive when I'm not aggressive at all. I'm not trolling, thats just a word you're all using when you fail to make valid points or to stay on topic.

I mean literally I said those exact things, and then you said the things I said are not reasons. When I am the person who said those very things. I'm sorry, but your logic is not even logic.

I mean, one can argue that the reason for the uptick in 1.23b has literally nothing to do with game quality and EVERYTHING to do with them pushing the legacy campaign hard for 2.0s release. Its literally the only reason I resubbed, to do the tie in questline with the grand companies.

Also, does my forum join date that predates yours mean my opinion holds more water (since you keep bringing that up to other people?) Especially since I was there for 1.0's beta?

[Morningstar1337]

FFXI is a MMORPG , FFXIV is a MMORPG, thats apples to apples.

I don't think that is exactly the case. XIV is more of a "theme park" MMO in the vein of WOW (one of Yoshida's more noted inspirations for ARR) Whereas XI predates WOW and by extension the themepark concept. 1.0 (which you previously discussed) and the Eureka content seemed a little more closer to XI. From what I gathered, Themepark MMOs seem to value convenience a lot more than XI which seemed to take a slightly more realistic (as you are surrounded by multiple high level enemies at most times, questing as more esoteric, arguably deleveling, etc) and grindy approach to adventuring, as well as a more lidded eye on balance regarding jobs (in fact i kinda wonder of the concept of QoL features would be anathema in XI's heyday).

And considering that WOW has been going fairly strong for 1.5 decades (AFAIK, could be longer), and that XIV also saw success with ARR onward. I take away that there is a bigger market for more easier/casual/convenient MMOs than more "hardcore"/"inconvenient" MMOs such as XI. And SE seemed to had noticed since AFAIK, XI was adding QoL and streamlining features since I think Abyssea.

I don't think either game is perfect and that the devs could stand to share notes, but I also don't they are as 1:1 as you think they are.

[Xatsh]

That, and the main reason all the "1.23b veterans" quit, was not because the game was simplified, it was because it went away from xi style combat and went more towards wow styled combat.

Content design is why most the XI hold outs in the 1.0 era quit the game eventually. I had a guild of nearly 55 people in XIV from XI. Alot stuck through ARR and most quit at the start of HW, most as in 48 of them, when they realized it was just more ARR with a new story and fresh coat of paint. Most of us stuck with 1.x era after it was trash because SE gutted FFXI at that same time with abysea. So they burned the old home and gave us garbage to move to. Alot of people stuck with XIV assuming Yoshida would fix the problems. Alot were horrified when he made World of Finalfantasy. I honestly believe if they did not screw up XI so badly almost all the ffxi people who went to xiv in the 1.X era would of went back to it.

I do not think many people wanted XI's combat system back in xiv. It was slow and extremely outdated. I never heard anyone say they wanted the auto attack and menu based combat. People did wanted the XIV combat to be more complex though. With Enfeebles, Buffs, Situational spells and attack, basically more then just rotations and maximizing dmg. They wanted mechanics that made you choose your action carefully...not the, do the same rotation perfect for 10mins and stand in the right place and you win on every fight in the game that we have now.

[Daniolaut]

I don't think that is exactly the case. XIV is more of a "theme park" MMO in the vein of WOW (one of Yoshida's more noted inspirations for ARR) Whereas XI predates WOW and by extension the themepark concept. 1.0 (which you previously discussed) and the Eureka content seemed a little more closer to XI. From what I gathered, Themepark MMOs seem to value convenience a lot more than XI which seemed to take a slightly more realistic (as you are surrounded by multiple high level enemies at most times, questing as more esoteric, arguably deleveling, etc) and grindy approach to adventuring, as well as a more lidded eye on balance regarding jobs (in fact i kinda wonder of the concept of QoL features would be anathema in XI's heyday).

And considering that WOW has been going fairly strong for 1.5 decades (AFAIK, could be longer), and that XIV also saw success with ARR onward. I take away that there is a bigger market for more easier/casual/convenient MMOs than more "hardcore"/"inconvenient" MMOs such as XI. And SE seemed to had noticed since AFAIK, XI was adding QoL and streamlining features since I think Abyssea.

I don't think either game is perfect and that the devs could stand to share notes, but I also don't they are as 1:1 as you think they are.

See this is the type of response I can highly respect. I dont need people to agree with me. If everyone always responded like this I wouldnt have to add "spice" to any of my comments or threads or anything.

Anyway to respond to you.

I am aware the differences of XIV and XI. If you read more deeply you could see that I'm not looking for XIV to be like XI. I tried to use examples across the entire franchise to show what I'm looking for.

I used XI in the chocobo example because in 2.0 things were a bit better. I'm seeing with each expansion they keep watering everything down, and thats whats bothering me.

I personally feel 5.0 is lacking in both quality and quantity. Sure I appreciate the changes such as flying in 2.0 zones. But I almost feel like being able to fly in 2.0 zones, magnifies how small 2.0 zones are and how bland 3.0+ zones are.

Again, I pointed out my appreciation for the Lochs. While its not the best looking zone, in terms of engagement, its on the upper end, even without anything being "added" to that zone. Although I could argue that the "vendors" being added give reason to go there.

(Edit: And I have been seeing them adding reasons to go to other zones. This is something that is small, but I appreciate. Like adding another reason to go to Idylshire, for the Unreal stuff. I quite dislike how you can literally stand in 1 spot in the game, and accomplish just about everything. I dont really feel like that is an "adventure. " I understand the "convenience," but I thought thats what teleporting and flying and everything else was for.)

I dont think XI or XIV are perfect. I dont think any game is "perfect." But I do feel XI is much closer than XIV. Are there things about XI that I dislike? Absolutely and I have a thread on the XI forums expressing it. But I also do praise the trust system in another thread, effectively "debunking" my previous "disappointed" thread.

The thing with XI is I feel they have the features XIV has, but do it better. Like the glamour system in XI is completely unrestricted. You can wear full AF gear from a completely different job. You can wear BLM AF as a MNK. Not the greatest of things, but the point there is, you can wear anything as any job. So I find it odd that a game released 11 years prior (and no I am not counting 1.0... this game released 11 years after XI.)

XI and WoW are both successful, and for different reasons, and have a different crowd. I dont want XIV to be WoW or XI. I want it be FFXIV, and I feel it can be, with a few minor tweaks such as adding a few cutscenes, adding a few UI features, and not releasing incomplete content (the new races and jobs) and going back on statements (saying BLU is overpowered, even though they nerfed it and its not overpowered, as well as tying housing to the sub. I'm mentioning that twice, not because its a sticking point, its just one easy example of the actual points i'm trying to make.) Probably fewer quests, so the quests are higher quality. (On the topic of questing, they have been improving with 5.0. Not everything is bland. But they can go do better. Easily.)

So to sum up what I'm saying.

I'd like a cleaner more customizable UI, probably fewer quests, so the questing is more engaging. Gathering nodes closer together, similarly how they were in 2.0, in fact a lot of things more like they were in 2.0. I felt 2.0 was about where the game was going in the right direction in terms of mechanics and content features. The story has gotten better since 3.0, but I feel everything else has been going downhill both in terms of quality and quantity. Thats the overarching statement.

[Gothicshark]

{snip}

That was an overly long excuse why you are not enjoying this game. Play something else then, Honestly, I love it and disagree with every point you made. I've played a long list of MMOs, going back to the early MUD days. Sure FFXIV is not the most modern, most of the newer MMOs are trash P2W anyway. Out of the big 4 MMOs left, FFXIV is the only one that ticks all the right buttons.

I love the Job/Class system, I love the dungeon, raid design they have. I love the travel methods they use.


But let's compare MMOs for a sec, ones that matter in 2020.


WOW vs FFXIV: WOW's classes have been so nerfed and messed with they have little or nothing in common with the classes they released in 2004. In fact every expansion they screw up the classes so much for one excuse or another that it's basically a different game every expansion. But what's worse is WOWs forced grinds, and lack of an entry for player into the quality endgame. Want to raid, you have to find a Raiding Guild, and one faction in the game hardly has any raiding guilds. FFXIV, by contrast, updates the Jobs often as well, but overall they keep the jobs close to what they started as, so it's not a massive learning curve every expansion. There is grind, but nowhere near as over the top as WOW, and if you want to raid, just do it, sure the high-end stuff is still in the hands of set groups, but you don't have to be the same FC, and even though all the same tools exist here as there the level of toxicity between full-time raiders and "casuals" is nowhere near the same. (it exists, but it isn't the same.)


ESO vs FFXIV: Very much in the same wheelhouse for both games, yet ESO has issues thanks to the Pay2win they added.

BDO vs FFXIV: Want world PVP, and epic grinds, do BDO, if not FFXIV.

[Gothicshark]

FFXI is a MMORPG , FFXIV is a MMORPG, thats apples to apples..

2nd generation MMORPG vs 4th Generation MMORPG.

That is apples and oranges. One game is lucky to still be online, and the other is in the top 4 most played current MMOs. If you love FFXI than play it, but don't come here and complain that this isn't a 20-year-old game.

[DPZ2]

I'd like a cleaner more customizable UI, probably fewer quests, so the questing is more engaging. Gathering nodes closer together, similarly how they were in 2.0, in fact a lot of things more like they were in 2.0. I felt 2.0 was about where the game was going in the right direction in terms of mechanics and content features. The story has gotten better since 3.0, but I feel everything else has been doing downhill both in terms of quality and quantity. Thats the overaching statement.

You know, if you had just limited your original post to these 5 sentences, you might have actually had a bunch of folks agreeing with you on some of them.

Instead, we got a Manifesto about why XIV isn't as good as XI in your eyes, or at least that's what I took away from that wall of text.

Your diatribe about zone change blackouts is noted, but I learned what was REALLY going on behind those apparently seamless scenes in 1.0. Frankly. I prefer the blackout.

As far as your current points:

Your UI is eminently customizable, although it would appear you haven't taken the time to perform that customization. It's a matter of taste as to whether it could be 'cleaner'.

Gathering nodes weren't all that close in 2.0 (yeah, I've been leveling alts of late) and it's as much a pain to get between nodes as it was back in 2014, but without the inconvenience of the slow-walk between those nodes (prior to 5.0) when you were stealthing so you didn't get killed by mobs. With flight, the 3.0+ areas are closer and avoid the mobs.

They've reduced the number of quests you need to finish in the 2.x storyline, and pretty much eliminated the need to do side-quests. That should be a plus in your eyes.

Mechanics in 2.0 are changed in 3.0+ for balance against the newer, harder-hitting open-world mobs and duty finder instances, as well as because it would have been extremely boring to be stuck with the rotations you used in ARR for the next 5 years. You may not like the changes, but that doesn't mean that 2.x was the end-and-be-all of this MMO experience.

As far as content -- you got 50 levels dumped on you, with two more years of content before the expansion. There HAD to be something for you to do once you've hit max level, or the MMO would have died a quick death in 2013. Most of that content HAD to be created and/or designed pretty much before 2.0 actually went on sale. It is pretty admirable for an MMO to have any kind of content schedule these days, even if it is not the content you desire.

[DBriggs304]

XI was awful even during its heyday...
I don't want 14 to be anything like that.

Thats just me though.