SMN Why don't we hear about egi glamours anymore?

[Exodus-E]

Snip.

I dunno about you, but I think we are way, way overdue on a dev' (or even Yoshida himself) commenting here on what's next regarding SMN, and more importantly, its Egis.
Because as it stands, we're just arguing in circles.

You want the Egis gone, while I want them to stay (adding more of them, even).
And it seems our opinions on the matter will not change unless someone at the top has anything to say about it.

(and for the record, they did various tweaks/adjustments to Egis in ShB to make them behave and "feel" better; so what makes you think they can't do so again further down the line?)

[HeulGDarian]

Stuff

It is equivalent.
Pheonix revelation is basicly orange akh morn and his autos are the same but renamed. The only thing they got different is one has everlasting flight, and is chained to trance ,the one that actually changes your spells.
Do you think that if they added lets say sephirot egi they wouldnt change the attacks into the summons equivalent? taking ifrit for inspiration one aoe and one single target hit. Even the enkindle would look different.
Exactly like pheonix is to bahamut.
Also downtime are the moments that the boss goes away leaving you unable to attack. losing value is simply all the potency you lost not cause of your mistake, though on summoner you got options, but cause the fight itself said no. trance unlike aetherflow doesnt have the use and have 60 seconds to use everything , its use it and you have 20 seconds of hits after that any hit you missed is gone for good, same goes for summons . thankfully demi bahamut still retains the mark of the better system that we lost and can be delayed without losing him , pheonix on the other hand cant. Thats something the trance system suffers from . Do you know why it suffers from it now? Because aetherflow was deleted. this is why no matter how fun pheonix is , a trance only summoner is completely undesirable , we already had a superior in every aspect system.


As for the stuff you say about ghosting between egis and demis. Current rotations work and advice on how to avoid ghosting in both cases. And they dont have to chase things sure but they are also limited by your range, they dont have to chase the boss but they also prioritse following you , Egis have instead the pro of being able to go wherever you want them to, i can tell them to go kill a target while i focus another , in that aspect they are completely independent and in stormblood they where even more being away from gcd or ogcd and being able to tank. As for chasing things and starting as soon as possible , on the first a simple gap closer on the current version of egis will do that, and for them to start at the same time as you all you need to do is place them on the boss and hit sic on 0.7 seconds. And as an additional pro of the egis , they wont stop autoing if you fail to act.

[HeulGDarian]

I dunno about you, but we are way, way overdue on a dev' (or even Yoshida himself) commenting here on what's next regarding SMN, and more importantly, its Egis.
Because as it stands, we're just arguing in circles.

You want the Egis gone, while I want them to stay (adding more of them, even).
And it seems our opinions on the matter will not change unless someone at the top has anything to say about it.

(and for the record, they did various tweaks/adjustments to Egis in ShB to make them behave and "feel" better; so what makes you think they can't do so again further down the line?)

If you want a confirmation , then the whole 5.3 story line should count for that. Eldibus himself says that creation magic is indeed what we know as summoning magic, meaning all the theories and knowledge of how to summon are now confirmed, the devs on one of their story have said it can do everything except summon a soul, on another explained how miasma works , ehmets ghosts cast ruin, and even the dungeon has ink mages be both summoner and scholars by casting broil 2 and ruin 3 and get this , the broil 2 attacks name is absolute ruin 3.
So unless they want to make smn a massive plothole , the only possible thing they can do is rework how egi works. it is safe to assume they have decided at least thematicly that smn stays as is.

[SomeRandomHuman]

At the very least gives us more carby colors. I like the ruby, topaz, and emerald ones don't get me wrong, but for a little critter known for being the color of many different gemstones it feels weird that we're stuck with just 3.

[SpiralMask]

At the very least gives us more carby colors. I like the ruby, topaz, and emerald ones don't get me wrong, but for a little critter known for being the color of many different gemstones it feels weird that we're stuck with just 3.

especially since we see at least two other colors used by others in the game (such as alphinaud and the girl from the anima weapon questline), though i'm still on the "more summon-egi's" team myself

[HeulGDarian]

especially since we see at least two other colors used by others in the game (such as alphinaud and the girl from the anima weapon questline), though i'm still on the "more summon-egi's" team myself

fun fact. that girl with the carbuncle on the anima questline, is the one who created the mogstation carbuncle mounts.

[Shougun]

Since it's all going around in circles anyways might as well spin it faster lol.

I ultimately prefer no glamour system but more unique theme specific content, but I prefer glamours over nothing. In this I'm saying I'd prefer if we saw say like 2 or 3 more niche egi and then like 2 or 3 more demi (with mechanics to enticingly support both) than a handful of glamours you can use on whatever. But I'd prefer 8 quality glamours over just 1 more different color demi or 1 more big boom spell and everything else staying the same.

I hope that primal content can infuse the job as a whole, I like to think of it as infecting / injecting as it levels. Such that perhaps at 60 you're still with some normal spells but at like 90 you'd be using burn instead of bio when ifrit is out, etc, etc, to the point pretty much nothing you do doesn't relate to something about a primal.

Not just visual relationship either, most ideally everything, gameplay and visual, has panache of that primal being used / infected with. Like Shiva might be a sort of middle ground CC egi (or demi, or whatever they do in this new system lol)- and she'd be able to make things a lot smoother if they were all wonky wild. If your tank was pulling wall to wall for example and you were like OMG THE YOYO ON THIS GUY- you'd pull Shiva out. Shiva would also be able to help with some of the ability management of monsters, meaning you'd use her to prevent certain scary spells from being used. Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda can keep their theme but it would be 'their' theme. Also of course adding some extra flare so it's not just damage, so with Garuda when you use egi assault perhaps you move a bit faster because you used a gust of wind. Everything having more than just a number to it, each primal being more than just a color and a potency. Sometimes that 'extra' flare is niche and not super helpful to whatever you're doing (like Shiva is going to do less damage to a boss than Ifrit and most of her CC will be ignored, not that helpful for that content) but each egi would have a time to shine and shine well, as well as 'feel' like them. In such a discussion I like to suggest Titan gets an HP bar back but he 'covers' you like a Paladin, with some other mechanics such that he gains a lot of his consistent tanky power back rather than being a stoneskin buff dispenser (which would mean his second assault would need a modification).

I don't really see the need to remove egi although I would love to see egi have tiers like you might think of the Spiritmaster from Aion or even some of the Warlock's demons. An ifrit-egi that is closer to a demi, etc. This could be brought in a sliding scale so the power gain makes sense, in the beginning it's just tier 1 egi (as it is now), then it's a spur like mechanic that upgrades it, then later it's a passive, etc.

Might see a mechanic that adds encouragement to switch up the egi, even if you're using the most optimal niche at the time- which would mean you get even more chances to think about the best fit for the situation. Something like after certain demi / mega cast rotations you get a bonus to switching your egi (that can't be applied to the one that was out), the bonus might not last for very long so you could switch back at the end but for that period you'd think 'okay what would be my /second/ most optimal choice'. By doing that you'd gain higher value for the niche choices you have as well. So it would not always be 'ifrit for single target, no matter what, no matter when'. There are other ways to work in that concept, but it would be nice to have a counter weight system to the idea of niche choices, so you have both diversity and actual gameplay variety. Doesn't have to be super heavy handed, just a soft touch .

Hope they have fun with the primals, go big, and go in theme, rather than just '...yay... pretty colors of damage... choose your color.. they're epic.. I guess?'.

Just my imo lol. Keep the merry go around spinning weee

[HeulGDarian]

Just my imo lol. Keep the merry go around spinning weee

I honestly wish for the merry go round to stop my dude TT, im getting dizzy cause its as fun as a cat stack inside a washing machine

[Karshan]

Oh, I wasn't under the impression that you wanted Oneshot summons, that paragraph was more in reference to some other posts I've seen over the past few .. well, years.

I absolutely agree that Trances/Demis are flashy and satisfying, the issue I see is that they only get to feel that way in the first place because they are limited. Right now they are Burst Phases, which is why they get to pack as much of a punch as they do.
If you had one Demi after another you'd either have to tone them down until they all have comparatively low output or you'd have to keep Bahamut/Phoenix as they are and keep anything in between at (roughly) the same output as the current Egi... at which point you might as well keep it as it is now.
Compare to Bard Songs; when they where limited - wether by CDs, MP or negative side effects - they got to feel impactful. Now that they are part of the basic gameplay loop with one Song active at all times their effects feel almost unnoticable without a parser. Their effects on Bard Gameplay feel also pretty arbitrary.
Also compare to AST cards which in ShB took a hit in potency to account for better reliability.
I worry a similar effect would happen with the Demis; which is why I'd prefer if they focused on improving and augmenting the two we have instead of turning them into mere gameplay phases with flashy graphics, while simultaneously nudging the Egi into a direction of feeling more integral and impactful on the gameplay.
Sometimes less is more, basically.

I do agree about the dots though, those would definitely be better served elsewhere and are much easier to design a new Job around.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, you mention liking HW SMNs combat flow.
Something like it could incredibly easy achieved under the current specification by just shifting some mechanics around.
Imagine EAs giving you Aethertrail instead of Further Ruin with Aethertrail being used to activate Trance/Summons.
This would realistically bring back some flexibility (assuming adjustments are made to EA for reliability) and give the Egi a logical and impactful function as enabler.
Lorewise this could be played off as your Egi protecting you while you prepare your bigger Summons.
Would something like this be a working compromise?

Love the idea. Aetherflow is disjointed anyway now, so reducing the button bloat by removing it and making this adjustment so that it's egi assault that gives you stack is a very good idea.

Also, something that could help completely with my gripes without changing a lot of things would be to turn the 3 nuggets in to their demi forms but only glamour wise.

[OvernightSiren]

Another expansion announcement and another live letter and once again zero mention of egi glamour. What do we Summoners have to do to get the devs attention?