Buffs to dragoon

[ForteNightshade]

DRG 2.0 says hi, Not relevant until final coil. Can i please get 15 seconds instead of 10 WS holding like monk did? DRG has never been fixed before Monk this is the first cycle they bull-crapped monk but at least they buffed Riddle of Fire by removing its slow down, honestly they seem to enjoy neglecting classes in this game. Popular opinion on the English forums is no to dragoon changes, when on the jp forums is a totally different beast. At least the guys there conduct themselves by spitballing ideas inside of a single job improvement thread so the devs can look at it and consider it, here everyone shoots down each-other with one liners because nobody wants to waste their brain power even considering for 5 seconds if it would even be game breaking or not.

I have mained Dragoon since Heavensward and are you kidding me? There has not been a single time since 3.0 where Dragoon wasn't superior. It either outright did more damage or brought enough support to compensate. I mean, piercing alone kept Dragoon in the meta slot throughout two expansions whereas Monk loitered in mediocrity. The only time Monk even entered the conversation is Eden's Gate when they panicked buffed it after the community straight up refused to play it. This coming off the heels of the media tour where the dev team cited Monk as their most proud change. By 5.1, Ninja reclaimed its status and now even with Dragoon finally slipping from the top dog spot, it's still third place—beating out, wait for it, Monk! Which remains the worst Melee in the game. Again.

To say Monk isn't among the most shafted jobs in the game at this point is just wrong.

[phantomr23]

You just described exactly what ive been talking about DRG is a sustain DPS not a burst DPS.
I've seen the fflog but I'm not talking about where DRG is on the tier listing I'm talking about actual gameplay.
Yes DRG can be Sustain DPS and be high tier, yes DRG can also be burst DPS and also be high tier.

They weren't talking about tiers, they were talking about objective statistics that can be viewed on FFlogs - Dragoon has several sudden spikes in damage, also known as bursts. It bursts during the opener/any reopeners when all the cooldowns are up and it bursts during the Stardiver phase. A class can be consistent and still have sudden bursts of damage.

I'm talking about playing DRG like its always been played.
In every other FF game DRG has been the heavy hitter of the group, not the mediocre hitter but can attack faster then everyone else.

Dragoon doesn't attack faster than the other Melee DPS. Last I checked Monk has a quick GCD as its gimmick, Samurai has a buff to speed built into its rotation and Ninja has rapid fire Mudras. Unless I've missed something DRG is very clearly the slowest Melee DPS, and makes up for it with... a lot of heavy hits. Also, this isn't every other FF; if you're going to complain about classes being changed from the mainline games you've got a lot else to complain about.

but sure lets move on from the past.
You can easily tell Yoshi P has no idea what to do with some of these jobs, like DRG, by that fact they make skills like BotD and clearly never tested them out.

Random pivot into an unsubstantiated point that has no logical explanation, neat.

[Daniolaut]

You're kidding, right? Just transfer to a data center closer to you? NA servers are on the West Coast, people on the East Coast can already have ping issues due to the distance, are they supposed to move cross country? What about people in Australia, closest data centers are in Japan which again, huge distance away and so their ping sucks. The developers should absolutely keep ping in mind when designing animation locks because it's not easy for people just get close to a data center for a really low ping.

No I’m not kidding.

The game is designed with distances in mind. If your ping is so high animation lock is causing you severe damage loss, then you should get a new provider. Or something like a VPN or take other steps to lower ping like Whitelist the server, change to Ethernet instead of WiFi.

They really don’t need to make changes because you refuse to.

packetloss on the other hand is another story. But the topic here isn’t packetloss, it’s animation lock.

So no. No I’m not kidding.

Are you kidding when you ask Square-Enix to change the game for everyone else because you refuse to make changes? That’s a bit of an ask.

Being realistic though, I probably am in the wrong place for logic and things making sense.

[ReiMakoto]

No I’m not kidding.

The game is designed with distances in mind. If your ping is so high animation lock is causing you severe damage loss, then you should get a new provider. Or something like a VPN or take other steps to lower ping like Whitelist the server, change to Ethernet instead of WiFi.

They really don’t need to make changes because you refuse to.

packetloss on the other hand is another story. But the topic here isn’t packetloss, it’s animation lock.

So no. No I’m not kidding.

Are you kidding when you ask Square-Enix to change the game for everyone else because you refuse to make changes? That’s a bit of an ask.

Being realistic though, I probably am in the wrong place for logic and things making sense.

Im just gonna assume you've never lived in/ played on EU, you can do your damnest to minmise your ping but its almost always gonna be noticiable and you're gonna get a tonne of packet loss. The game is clearly not designed with distance in mind if it took them so many years to make ninjas design more ping friendly, and they thought the abomination that was SB mch's design was okay (inconsistent flamethrower ticks haunt my nightmares). You're also making a bunch of assumtions here about players not putting in effort, a lot of players in EU and AU make active effort to lower ping and still can't do anything about it outside of literally moving.

[Shurrikhan]

You just described exactly what ive been talking about DRG is a sustain DPS not a burst DPS.
I've seen the fflog but I'm not talking about where DRG is on the tier listing I'm talking about actual gameplay.

It's actual gameplay is bursty. Your apm and potency is not proportionate over time. Your periods of greatest damage can exceed twice your sustained DPS and nearly reach twice your average. Any class with significant differences in output over time, such that their greatest damage rates near twice their average, is considered "bursty". Although other jobs have caught up with it since, Dragoon began as one of the most bursty jobs (alongside only Bard and perhaps BLM, originally) and still remains plenty bursty to this day. It has always had a fair bit of burst.

You can throw up your hands and pretend burst refers to the amount of damage dealt in a single skill, but it never has. It's only ever referred to a brief period of time (which holds disproportionately high value).

DRG has, for all intents and purposes, a Fell Cleave as a 3rd combo step. It its burst phase, it can do up to up to 1078 effective AoE potency without even using a global cooldown. That is heavy-hitting.

Beyond that, though, it's pointless to draw comparisons to single-player games.

[Ramura_Sono]

The game is designed with distances in mind.

No. It's not. They've literally said it was designed with Japans internet infrastructure in mind. Which was one of the main reasons they changed how Ninja's Mudras worked.

[animeking]

clearly no one has played old FF games and dont know what a Burst DD is.

Burst phase is not burst DPS.

back in the old games when you get a DRG in your party he was a heavy hitter.
even in FFXI DRG was a heavy hitter.

[phantomr23]

clearly no one has played old FF games and dont know what a Burst DD is.

Burst phase is not burst DPS.

back in the old games when you get a DRG in your party he was a heavy hitter.
even in FFXI DRG was a heavy hitter.

It's definitely possible that every single other person who plays MMOs and has widely decided what "burst DPS" means is wrong, that's true. It's also possible that your pointless arbitrary definition of DRG being a "heavy hitter" in the other games and not a "heavy hitter" here is wrong.

I know which one I'm voting for.

[Kabooa]

clearly no one has played old FF games and dont know what a Burst DD is.

Losing a turn to deal less damage than mashing the "Fight Button" isn't a great example of doing "Burst".

[ReiMakoto]

Losing a turn to deal less damage than mashing the "Fight Button" isn't a great example of doing "Burst".

In fairness, that depends on which final fantasy game you're playing.

In FF3 from about job level 50 onwards jumping is damage neutral to fight, and scales further to be more powerful than fight

In FF4 it dealt more damage with the right setup

In FF5 when using a spear its damage neutral to fight, however lets you attack from the back row, and ignores enemy blocks.

In FF6 it is potentially the highest damage you can do with a physical fighter when using the dragon horn and dragon boots, as one cast of jump executes jump multiple times like a pogo stick decimating enemies (especially in the imp setup)

You get the point, but its certainly not less damage than fight in most of the cases I can think of.