The toxicity starting to happen.

[Floortank]

Toxicity has always been there. It's not a new thing. We've got a pretty good community overall.

[Gula]

Toxicity has always been there. It's not a new thing. We've got a pretty good community overall.

I would say painfully average.

[Lemuel81]

Easiest way to solve this is to turn off tank stance and pull large and tell the healer to use their pro leet heals to keep everyone alive or just randomly shirk you aggro to the healer for laughs.

I DESPISE healers that want to pretend they know how to tank.

Poor healers, we black mages already tell them to adjust. Not going to be room for DPSing haha

[Delis]

Most of this wouldn't be an issue if the tank just asks at the start of the dungeon, "are we all good with big pulls?" Then the group can say yes or no i am not comfortable with doing big pulls just yet. If you as a tank arent comfortable with big pulls then let the group know when you start the dungeon. Hey i am just not yet comfortable with big pulls, going to do smaller ones. (Though i would say to tanks and healers, that are not comfortable with big pulls to keep trying it out. You wont just all of a sudden be good at it over night, you need to get in there and try it out. If you struggle just get up brush yourself off and get back at it.) That way everyone is on the same page. But I know, I know, it's to scary to talk in party chat. So we will just stay silent and then get upset when something doesn't go the way we think it should. The other party members should be able to read our mind, why aren't they doing that..

[tdb]

Make sure you've got threat. If a healer is getting punched they may get interrupted, if that's during a crucial GCD heal it might mean death. You can also try to aim enemies away from your party/healers specifically but this can be hard with WHM and SCH since they should be centered in the pack for their AoEs.

That's a given. I mean, holding threat is the entire point of being a tank. Sometimes I might not hit everything with my AoEs while pulling but I'll gather any stragglers when I get to the kill position. Aggro ripping occasionally happens but I generally notice and correct the situation quickly. And it's usually a DPS ripping aggro when I've switched to single target but am attacking a different mob.

Aiming the enemies away from the party is not always easy due to dodging attacks and large packs of enemies tending to surround me, but I do it when I can. Also I try to not move the enemies around too much if I have melee dps. Unless there's fire on the ground in which case I try to move them so the melee can safely attack them.

Don't take avoidable damage. The simple part is avoiding the bad stuff on the ground (which can really chunk you!) but this can also mean using Interject appropriately (the frogs in the level 73 dungeon come to mind,the empower other enemies if not silenced) and stunning if you don't have a WHM. You can stun an enemy to cancel a ground AoE but you can also just stun an enemy when it's not casting anything to make it lose a few auto attacks. Every bit helps.

I do my best to avoid AoEs, though it can result in some crazy running around if the entire pack of mobs is doing AoEs (a couple of pulls in Sohm Al come to mind, as well as pretty much the entire Heroes Gauntlet). If I know a particular enemy is doing something worth interrupting, I'll prepare to interrupt it by keeping that enemy targeted. It takes some time to learn what to interrupt in each dungeon though. I wasn't aware of the Fuath's buff before seeing it mentioned a couple times recently. I don't remember offhand what its cast time is; in some cases I've noticed an enemy using an interruptable ability but it's like a half second cast so I have no realistic chance to interrupt it.

Rotate CDs properly. This can vary by tank. I don't use Holmgang or LD in dungeons much personally, not unless I know the healer, but HG and Bolide are great to get on CD fast. From there I walk back through your 2min bigboi CDs (Vengance/Sentinel/Nebula/Shadow Wall) and then break into smaller things. If you have a WHM give them a chance to Holy, no need to waste a big CD when the enemies are going to be doing nothing for like 10 seconds of it. Feel free to use your party mitigation too if appropriate, many of them also benefit you. Don't forget about Arm's Length and Reprisal! They're godly on trash now.

This is the part I'm most uncertain about. Nebula, Rampart and Camouflage have long enough cooldowns that they're only available on every other pull. So I figure I shouldn't use all of them on the same pull. Reprisal and Heart of Stone can be used on every pull, HoS often even twice, so I'm using those as filler after the bigger CDs have been spent (at which point the mobs have hopefully been thinned out).

I hadn't noticed that Arm's Length also gives slow to enemies. Now I have to find a place for it on my quickbars which are already too full.

Superbolide is a difficult one since it sets my HP to 1. I definitely don't want to use it from near full health since that just creates extra work for the healer. But if I try to save it for an emergency I may end up using it too late and die anyway. It's honestly the most disappointing of all the invuln abilities due to the self-damage. At least Holmgang and Living Dead can be safely used just in case, even if they can't come close to the OPness of Hallowed Ground.

Access damage and healing effects to the best of your ability. Keep enemies in Doton when you can, make sure you're within the range of Asylum/Earthly Star/Sacred Soil. I've been counting on my big Star pop to save a tank before only to watch him step out at the last second, it feels awful since sometimes there's nothing you can do.

Yeah, there's so many tanks who just ignore Eartly Star in particular. It doesn't help that the sparkling ring near ground is much less noticeable than the huge domes of Asylym and Sacred Soil. If I see any area effects from my party I try to move myself and/or the enemies to them as appropriate (or not move away from them if I'm already in). Enemy AoEs happen though so sometimes I'm forced to move away at just the wrong moment.

Edit: Added some things.

[phantomr23]

This is the part I'm most uncertain about. Nebula, Rampart and Camouflage have long enough cooldowns that they're only available on every other pull. So I figure I shouldn't use all of them on the same pull. Reprisal and Heart of Stone can be used on every pull, HoS often even twice, so I'm using those as filler after the bigger CDs have been spent (at which point the mobs have hopefully been thinned out).

I hadn't noticed that Arm's Length also gives slow to enemies. Now I have to find a place for it on my quickbars which are already too full.

Superbolide is a difficult one since it sets my HP to 1. I definitely don't want to use it from near full health since that just creates extra work for the healer. But if I try to save it for an emergency I may end up using it too late and die anyway. It's honestly the most disappointing of all the invuln abilities due to the self-damage. At least Holmgang and Living Dead can be safely used just in case, even if they can't come close to the OPness of Hallowed Ground.

You're pretty much there with cooldown usage. Learning to adjust based on kill speed is a skill you'll gain over time but I personally like to stagger my cooldowns so I'm at about ~30% mitigation for the start and middle of a pull when the most enemies are alive, and then dwindle down a little near the end as enemies die. Generally this means using one medium cooldown (Rampart, Arm's Length etc.) + one small cooldown (Reprisal, Aurora etc.), or one large cooldown. (your 30% or your invuln). Mitigate as best you can during the high damage periods and then hold a little when you know you're safe.

As for Superbolide, it's definitely awkward but it's actually the second most useable one in dungeons - one idea is to set up a Macro you can hit which will announce you plan to use Superbolide as your first cooldown next pull, and then hit pop Superbolide around ~25% - you don't need to be 100% optimal, and it lets the healer know they don't have to use anything on you except to get you back to full. Honestly, the most important quality a tank can have is a willingness to learn so you'll be fine - out of interest, what were the trash pulls that wiped you while levelling?

[tdb]

out of interest, what were the trash pulls that wiped you while levelling?

Hmm, it's been a while so let's see what I can remember.

One was in Holminster Switch - I pulled up to the first wall and we wiped pretty soon. I noticed the healer died first but I'm pretty sure I had aggro from everything, so maybe it was an AoE avoidance failure? After barely surviving the second attempt someone commented that we don't have enough dps so I scaled down to single pulls for the rest of the dungeon. In this case I was Lv71 with i390-ish gear so not quite synced, but I think close enough that double pulls should be possible if the rest of the party was up to the task.

Another was Sohm Al, the second pull with two of those tall plants. I'm honestly not sure what happened there, but after everyone had revived I was able to pull the rest of the dungeon normally.

Then there was one in Great Gubal Library, I think the first pull after the first boss. I seem to recall the healer blaming this on bad luck and getting constantly targeted by the book (which can't be tanked) and having their heals interrupted. Maybe dps failure for not focusing the book?

I think there was also one in Sirensong Sea, on the pull right after getting off the ship. Don't really remember what happened there, and I'm not sure if it even was a complete wipe. But again I was able to double pull the rest of the run just fine, including the part with the coffin dude.

There may have been others which I've forgotten.

[Lium]

I'll be honest, I see less toxicity in game then people complain about online (only the occasional elitist or troll) and I see MORE toxicity on places like Reddit.

I've always said the in-game community is way better than the forums or social media. These forums, like all MMO forums, suck. And Reddit is 99% fan art and cosplay. If you actually want to discuss the game you get downvoted and it never makes it out of /new.

Also, I find it hilarious that posts 5 and 6 in this thread completely proved the OP's point about toxicity. It's almost like they entirely missed the point about the tank being brand new.

Yeah, people suck. It's on full display right there.

[HarleyQueen]

Based on the fact that I'm the only person around that I see referring to people as troglodytes I'll take this as a passive aggressive subtweet at me.

I will need to put together a burning man glam because of the huge freaking strawman you've built. No wonder you're so combative all the time if you think the only play people deem acceptable is the "best ever" that would be incredibly disheartening.

I just posted a giant "tank basics" post in this same damn page for someone who admitted they were having troubles, complete with reassurance that it might not be their fault as well. Does that track in line with the brush you're trying to paint me (and other people with standards) with? No.

Seems to me the grumpy and uncompromising side is the one who won't even try to do better. I'll take deaths and wipes to people learning and trying to broaden their horizons, you guys are the ones saying to baby pull dungeons because ohno you might have to spend a few hundred more gil on repairs.

This is the FFXIV forums, the place where people post about nerfing shinryu 2 years after release, reeeeee about Mist Dragon because MSQ should be brain dead. An effort was made *pet pet* you're talking to a wall of bad though frien

[Endeleon]

Starting?? LOL! I remember before HW launched I was a noob in Tokorak that got completely roasted and kicked because I got lost. Seriously you guys have rose colored glasses.