Why does everyone want Chemist as a new job?

[Sylve]

There are plenty ppl here discussing the use of physical attacks and stats. How can healer stats shared with physical stats? Someone even suggested to make him an exclusive role lol. Nothing of this will happen. Thats my point

Well, DEX can make NINs stab harder, lightning (Raiton) zap better and fire burn hotter. Technically, should be STR if you want to do more melee damage and INT for the magical aspects of Ninjutsu effects.

MND makes Malefic do more damage and also makes Benefic heal harder. Completely different kinds of magic. So it stands to reason an Alchemical/Potion/Tech based healer would still use their MIND to to create the potions that heal and ammo for dealing damage.

I'd be all for an expansion of tech based healer gear. I have a couple of glamour sets for my Healers that have them looking more like Tanks with a fully armoured aesthetic.

[TitaniumVulpes]

Well, DEX can make NINs stab harder, lightning (Raiton) zap better and fire burn hotter. Technically, should be STR if you want to do more melee damage and INT for the magical aspects of Ninjutsu effects.

MND makes Malefic do more damage and also makes Benefic heal harder. Completely different kinds of magic. So it stands to reason an Alchemical/Potion/Tech based healer would still use their MIND to to create the potions that heal and ammo for dealing damage.

I'd be all for an expansion of tech based healer gear. I have a couple of glamour sets for my Healers that have them looking more like Tanks with a fully armoured aesthetic.

You get it! Skills are designed with that job and their stats in mind, and base their damage/healing output on whatever attributes that job uses, with the sole exception of Physick on SMN because it's a holdover from the SMN/SCH split. That's why I can vercure for like 12k hp rather than like 400. It's why they got rid of Cleric Stance after they added RDM and changed healer skills to work like this.

A CHM/APO's mind stat would be what determines their healing and their damage regardless of if it's magic or physical. Every other role has at least one job that uses the opposite type of skill (magic skills on physical jobs, physical skills on magic jobs) and it would be pretty cool to have a healer that breaks that mold as well.

(also I would love to steal see your glamour ideas )

[Towns]

Dude it was datamined. Was conjurer getting land shift also coded for Arcanist?

I keep seeing this idea parroted on these forums, but I've never once found a datamine that showed Geomancer for 1.0. Things like Mystic and Fencer were mentioned with zero actual development behind them (just a name and what their basic attacks were), but never Geomancer. The only time I've seen Geomancer mentioned is on these forums, where people insist that they were planned and were a branch from CNJ (which made little sense given how 1.0 CNJ operated).

And even then, 1.0 was a different game. Despite a guild existing and far more thought behind it, we never got Musketeer (which would've been decidedly different from MCH). Arcanist was completely changed from it's intended 1.0 form. The only relevant details on Geomancer started in SB. Anyone reaching to 1.0 is trying far too hard to justify something.

[Mhaeric]

I keep seeing this idea parroted on these forums, but I've never once found a datamine that showed Geomancer for 1.0. Things like Mystic and Fencer were mentioned with zero actual development behind them (just a name and what their basic attacks were), but never Geomancer. The only time I've seen Geomancer mentioned is on these forums, where people insist that they were planned and were a branch from CNJ (which made little sense given how 1.0 CNJ operated).

Arcanist was datamined in 1.0 and their abilities were kind of mechanically sort of similar to how Geo abilities functioned in FFXI inasmuch as they would create magical mechanic devices and traps that they would place on the battlefield to have various effects in an area although there were no specifics about whether those effects were buffs, damage, healing or something different. They definitely weren't very Geomancer themed outside of a similarity to FFXI mechanics, being rather more of a steampunk magic user kind of thing. They clearly went a different route than that with Arcanist once it finally showed up in 2.0 although you can find hints of it with Scholar in some of the animations and AF sets which feature gears.

http://crevox.blogspot.com/ and search the page for Arcanist to find the section on them.

[Towns]

Arcanist was datamined in 1.0 and their abilities were kind of mechanically sort of similar to how Geo abilities functioned in FFXI inasmuch as they would create magical mechanic devices and traps that they would place on the battlefield to have various effects in an area although there were no specifics about whether those effects were buffs, damage, healing or something different. They definitely weren't very Geomancer themed outside of a similarity to FFXI mechanics, being rather more of a steampunk magic user kind of thing. They clearly went a different route than that with Arcanist once it finally showed up in 2.0 although you can find hints of it with Scholar in some of the animations and AF sets which feature gears.

http://crevox.blogspot.com/ and search the page for Arcanist to find the section on them.

Yeah, that's my point. Arcanist was (planned to be) a mechanical mage in 1.0, but that was in no way GEO outside of some similarities to FFXI's GEO gameplay.

But people saying "Geomancer was datamined in 1.0" are completely incorrect, as nothing even closely resembling a Geomancer was intended for the game. Trying to use the intended 1.0's Arcanist gameplay loop as rationale that GEO will be added to the game is silly, as it'd be like saying we are going to get Puppeteer because mammets exist and look somewhat like FFXI automatons.

It's such a loose and silly connection.

[SeikishiYuuki]

Yeah, that's my point. Arcanist was (planned to be) a mechanical mage in 1.0, but that was in no way GEO outside of some similarities to FFXI's GEO gameplay.

But people saying "Geomancer was datamined in 1.0" are completely incorrect, as nothing even closely resembling a Geomancer was intended for the game. Trying to use the intended 1.0's Arcanist gameplay loop as rationale that GEO will be added to the game is silly, as it'd be like saying we are going to get Puppeteer because mammets exist and look somewhat like FFXI automatons.

It's such a loose and silly connection.

This was a decade ago and unfortunately a lot of the places that information was placed have dropped off the face of the earth, I only remembered cause of 10 year old facebook conversation. 1.0 had something like 10-12 intended classes with 2 jobs each planned. Most didn't exist in the game outside arbitrary files that were just sorta spaghetti coded in, after the project changed hands a huge amount of that stuff was trashed cause it was pointless. I digress, it's like Mirron said though it doesn't really matter it was a decade ago and most of that team is gone so we can't 100% say for sure one way or another.

[Mhaeric]

Yeah, that's my point. Arcanist was (planned to be) a mechanical mage in 1.0, but that was in no way GEO outside of some similarities to FFXI's GEO gameplay.

But people saying "Geomancer was datamined in 1.0" are completely incorrect, as nothing even closely resembling a Geomancer was intended for the game. Trying to use the intended 1.0's Arcanist gameplay loop as rationale that GEO will be added to the game is silly, as it'd be like saying we are going to get Puppeteer because mammets exist and look somewhat like FFXI automatons.

It's such a loose and silly connection.

You're forgetting that 1.0 didn't use traditional FF job names on purpose, even going so far as to blur traditional roles entirely in a lot of cases. Arcanist was effectively Geomancer as much as anything could be at the time. If it had actually been a released class in 1.0 with skills as described from the datamine then it very likely would have received a Geomancer job stone when they added jobs during the class system overhaul.

[Towns]

You're forgetting that 1.0 didn't use traditional FF job names on purpose, even going so far as to blur traditional roles entirely in a lot of cases. Arcanist was effectively Geomancer as much as anything could be at the time. If it had actually been a released class in 1.0 with skills as described from the datamine then it very likely would have received a Geomancer job stone when they added jobs during the class system overhaul.

I feel like that's pushing it quite a lot. All we know of 1.0 Arcanist was that it combined mechanical items and magic, which is in no way a Geomancer per any FFXIV game. The gameplay was similar in design to FFXI Geomancer, but that's all.

Could it have drastically changed course? Sure, but at that point it could've become our version of Machinist before it became Geomancer.

My point is just that 1.0 had no indication of Geomancer being a thing. A class that was similar in gameplay to FFXI Geomancer? Yeah, that was planned. A Geomancer? Not really, since the class used literally 0 Geomancy in what was datamined. The whole basis of the class doesn't even slightly align with what Geomancy has been in FF.

Geomancer is just a job that we know exists in the world of FFXIV, but is no more likely to be a player job than Necromancer. Anyone drawing connections to 1.0 may as well say that Conjurer was the indication of Geomancer as it had access to the whole collection of elemental spells.

[BasicBlake]

I feel like that's pushing it quite a lot. All we know of 1.0 Arcanist was that it combined mechanical items and magic, which is in no way a Geomancer per any FFXIV game. The gameplay was similar in design to FFXI Geomancer, but that's all.

Could it have drastically changed course? Sure, but at that point it could've become our version of Machinist before it became Geomancer.

My point is just that 1.0 had no indication of Geomancer being a thing. A class that was similar in gameplay to FFXI Geomancer? Yeah, that was planned. A Geomancer? Not really, since the class used literally 0 Geomancy in what was datamined. The whole basis of the class doesn't even slightly align with what Geomancy has been in FF.

Geomancer is just a job that we know exists in the world of FFXIV, but is no more likely to be a player job than Necromancer. Anyone drawing connections to 1.0 may as well say that Conjurer was the indication of Geomancer as it had access to the whole collection of elemental spells.

Conjurer was the indication though. We're just going to argue back and forth but, it started when the Conjurer ability "landshift" was datamined and it went from there.

People aren't just saying things to say them, it was plastered all over the internet back then. But alas, it's just going to be a bunch of back and forth of "I saw this" and "Well I saw this" or "I didn't see this".

[MirronTulaxia]

Conjurer worked rather differently from Geomancer way back then too though. Land Shift, most likely just a name, really could mean any number of things, and even if we had a very specific mechanical execution I doubt it was “does an effect based on terrain” which is the only decisively Geo thing. But even then the classes back then didn’t resemble any existing jobs, so even with that effect I wouldn’t call it a Geomancer.

But the most salient point is definitely the game has changed in the decade or whatever length of time since 1.0 datamine stuff was happening. Content that was at whatever vague stage of development, that didn’t get implemented, that is tied to a job that is rather different than how it was all the way back then, it just all adds up to nothing meaningful. I’m not really sure why it’s being debated, especially as we don’t have any direct data on hand to even really compare things with. Whatever odds Geomancer has are almost assuredly not going to be tied to what, if any, plans they had way back then. 1.0 had an entirely different design approach on top of all the other differences. At this point it’s less apples and oranges and more apples and coal. Sure they both share carbon as an element but the differences mean that similarity is somewhat meaningless.

That said I don’t agree it’s in the same ballpark as Necromancer. There is much more recent, more relevant hints than 1.0 datamines, and even absent that the job is a much more iconic job to the series than Necromancer.