The toxicity starting to happen.

[Veis_Alveare]

A couple of weeks ago when I was leveling GNB it was a pretty common occurrence to wipe to a trash pull before the first boss in leveling roulette. I have a good connection so it's not that. Couldn't have been gear either since it happened in dungeons where I was far above sync level. Hard to say if the reason was me failing to use my cooldowns properly or the healer being either surprised at getting a big pull in a leveling dungeon or just inexperienced.

I'm still not sure if it's me or the healer when my health drops unexpectedly fast in expert dungeons, but there haven't been any wipes. Got any tips for someone who's still relatively new to tanking?

I think tanking is the friendlier of the two support roles in terms of what you can bring to a run because you're more limited than a healer.

You know your gear is good so beyond that there are a few things you can do to ensure success to the best if your ability.

• Make sure you've got threat. If a healer is getting punched they may get interrupted, if that's during a crucial GCD heal it might mean death. You can also try to aim enemies away from your party/healers specifically but this can be hard with WHM and SCH since they should be centered in the pack for their AoEs.
• Don't take avoidable damage. The simple part is avoiding the bad stuff on the ground (which can really chunk you!) but this can also mean using Interject appropriately (the frogs in the level 73 dungeon come to mind,the empower other enemies if not silenced) and stunning if you don't have a WHM. You can stun an enemy to cancel a ground AoE but you can also just stun an enemy when it's not casting anything to make it lose a few auto attacks. Every bit helps.
• Rotate CDs properly. This can vary by tank. I don't use Holmgang or LD in dungeons much personally, not unless I know the healer, but HG and Bolide are great to get on CD fast. From there I walk back through your 2min bigboi CDs (Vengance/Sentinel/Nebula/Shadow Wall) and then break into smaller things. If you have a WHM give them a chance to Holy, no need to waste a big CD when the enemies are going to be doing nothing for like 10 seconds of it. Feel free to use your party mitigation too if appropriate, many of them also benefit you. Don't forget about Arm's Length and Reprisal! They're godly on trash now.
• Access damage and healing effects to the best of your ability. Keep enemies in Doton when you can, make sure you're within the range of Asylum/Earthly Star/Sacred Soil. I've been counting on my big Star pop to save a tank before only to watch him step out at the last second, it feels awful since sometimes there's nothing you can do.

I hope these help out!

If you're doing all that and you still die it's either a healer issue (bad/bad gear/bad connection) or if things are taking absolutely forever to die it might be on the dps. If you and the healer are both doing your basics though you won't be wiping on trash.

(Also I totally should be using Holmgamg probably, I know they buffed the duration forever ago. I will pop it in an emergency just like LD but for some reason in the heat of the moment my brain still thinks of it as a short duration CD. Bleh.)

This may come as a surprise, but there are some pulls out there that are just flat out dangerous.

Like the one in Ala Mhigo between the first and second boss.

Or That One Damned Pull in Hell's Lid.

And then there's the infamous tank killer before the second boss in The Twinning, especially if you do it early on, fresh out of clearing the Shadowbringers MSQ with no extra gear to soften the impact. That brings back some unpleasant memories.

Or the last pull in The Burn, right before the Mist Dragon. Those freaking worms...

And a few others.

Having any of those forced on you when you are not prepared for them...it can go real bad.

"No don't! This particular pull is-"

"LEEEEEERRRROOOOYYY JEEEENNNNKIIIIINNNNSSSS!"

"Ah hell"

*Wipe*

Other than the worm one which never struck me as particularly impressive you're just listing some of my favorite pulls.

God, that Ala Mhigo one was amazing. My friend was tanking that our first run ever and we had agreed to always go as far as we could to find out what the limits were... so, so spicy. I love it.

[Mixt]

This may come as a surprise, but there are some pulls out there that are just flat out dangerous.

Like the one in Ala Mhigo between the first and second boss.

Or That One Damned Pull in Hell's Lid.

And then there's the infamous tank killer before the second boss in The Twinning, especially if you do it early on, fresh out of clearing the Shadowbringers MSQ with no extra gear to soften the impact. That brings back some unpleasant memories.

Or the last pull in The Burn, right before the Mist Dragon. Those freaking worms...

And a few others.

Having any of those forced on you when you are not prepared for them...it can go real bad.

"No don't! This particular pull is-"

"LEEEEEERRRROOOOYYY JEEEENNNNKIIIIINNNNSSSS!"

"Ah hell"

*Wipe*

[JohnSpawnVFX]

This may come as a surprise, but there are some pulls out there that are just flat out dangerous.

Like the one in Ala Mhigo between the first and second boss.

Or That One Damned Pull in Hell's Lid.

And then there's the infamous tank killer before the second boss in The Twinning, especially if you do it early on, fresh out of clearing the Shadowbringers MSQ with no extra gear to soften the impact. That brings back some unpleasant memories.

Or the last pull in The Burn, right before the Mist Dragon. Those freaking worms...

And a few others.

Having any of those forced on you when you are not prepared for them...it can go real bad.

"No don't! This particular pull is-"

"LEEEEEERRRROOOOYYY JEEEENNNNKIIIIINNNNSSSS!"

"Ah hell"

*Wipe*

"Oh no, a few bad pulls. Welp, guess I should stick to single pulls for the rest of the game, till I quit or the servers are turned off."

Are you the devil sitting at the shoulder of every tank who claims to suffer from "tankxiety"?

[Connor]

Is it really that hard to just compromise? This whole thread just seems to be people screeching at ‘my way or no way’ at each other?

Why not both? A dungeon can be done quickly while still giving people breathing room. Pulling more than one group at a time as tank and causing a wipe by accident isn’t a big deal, it just means you know what not to do next time. And even if you don’t that’s ok. If a healer says they’re not comfortable with dps’ing does it really matter if they just keep up DoTs or overuse healing gcds? If the healer decides to go full pure dps then does it really matter if nobody dies?

Not everyone has the same skill level or investment in their performance. Not everyone has the same perception of what makes a ‘good run’, or a ‘good player’. Sometimes people just flat out mess up. People are different. Sometimes they’re average, sometimes they’re exceptional, sometimes they’re statistical outliers that nobody can explain lol. Why do we have to keep arguing about ‘tanks should do this’ or ‘dps should never do that’? What’s wrong just accepting our differences and trying to compromise? If one person says they want the dungeon to go fast but the tank isn’t comfortable, what’s wrong with them just taking one extra mob group than every group between them and the next wall

[Doozer]

Is it really that hard to just compromise? This whole thread just seems to be people screeching at ‘my way or no way’ at each other?

Why not both? A dungeon can be done quickly while still giving people breathing room. Pulling more than one group at a time as tank and causing a wipe by accident isn’t a big deal, it just means you know what not to do next time. And even if you don’t that’s ok. If a healer says they’re not comfortable with dps’ing does it really matter if they just keep up DoTs or overuse healing gcds? If the healer decides to go full pure dps then does it really matter if nobody dies?

Not everyone has the same skill level or investment in their performance. Not everyone has the same perception of what makes a ‘good run’, or a ‘good player’. Sometimes people just flat out mess up. People are different. Sometimes they’re average, sometimes they’re exceptional, sometimes they’re statistical outliers that nobody can explain lol. Why do we have to keep arguing about ‘tanks should do this’ or ‘dps should never do that’? What’s wrong just accepting our differences and trying to compromise? If one person says they want the dungeon to go fast but the tank isn’t comfortable, what’s wrong with them just taking one extra mob group than every group between them and the next wall

People here have a tendency to stick to black and white thinking, where something is either the best thing ever or literally the worst. You're either good or a "troglodyte". There is no in between on the official forums, my friend.

It would benefit a lot of them to just relax more. Outside of Savage and Ultimate, there really isn't any reason to be 100% efficient besides personal choice. No wonder they're crabby all the time.

[HeulGDarian]

Is it really that hard to just compromise? This whole thread just seems to be people screeching at ‘my way or no way’ at each other?

Why not both? A dungeon can be done quickly while still giving people breathing room. Pulling more than one group at a time as tank and causing a wipe by accident isn’t a big deal, it just means you know what not to do next time. And even if you don’t that’s ok. If a healer says they’re not comfortable with dps’ing does it really matter if they just keep up DoTs or overuse healing gcds? If the healer decides to go full pure dps then does it really matter if nobody dies?

Not everyone has the same skill level or investment in their performance. Not everyone has the same perception of what makes a ‘good run’, or a ‘good player’. Sometimes people just flat out mess up. People are different. Sometimes they’re average, sometimes they’re exceptional, sometimes they’re statistical outliers that nobody can explain lol. Why do we have to keep arguing about ‘tanks should do this’ or ‘dps should never do that’? What’s wrong just accepting our differences and trying to compromise? If one person says they want the dungeon to go fast but the tank isn’t comfortable, what’s wrong with them just taking one extra mob group than every group between them and the next wall

No need to take it seriously. The community inside the game doesnt reflect what you see here, obviously people some times will do slow cause sometimes there is reasoning behind it, like i dont really ask for people to pull more i just accept it by being dead inside. Its just that forum wise there is this notion that going slowly and playing less buttons is this super secret chill gameplay style that people just dont understand that pisses on most people porridge. People arent dumb they know laziness when they see it , its when they try to pass it as something else that a fight will occur. You can be tired and just want to take it slowly that one time , sure i dont mind lets just go slowly , it will be boring but thats on SE more than on the slow pull from the tank.

[Hycinthus]

To me it doesnt have to be one way or the other.

The first pull, i will gauge how the team is performing. If we are not struggling, then i will pull wall to wall the next pull. Otherwise, break it up into 2. And depends on the dungeon as well.

It doesnt have to be black and white. Adjust according to party and situation and dungeon. That’s it.

[LaughingBanana]

"Oh no, a few bad pulls. Welp, guess I should stick to single pulls for the rest of the game, till I quit or the servers are turned off."

Are you the devil sitting at the shoulder of every tank who claims to suffer from "tankxiety"?

I read it as there are times when people doing big pulls should be more cautious about it, that's all.

To me it doesnt have to be one way or the other.

The first pull, i will gauge how the team is performing. If we are not struggling, then i will pull wall to wall the next pull. Otherwise, break it up into 2. And depends on the dungeon as well.

It doesnt have to be black and white. Adjust according to party and situation and dungeon. That’s it.

This is my approach.

Heck last night I played in Aurum Vale with 2 DPS that, for some inexplicable reason I don't understand, refuse to use AOEs throughout the entire dungeon, lol. I had no choice but to pull small in that scenario, since the poor healer actually apologized when things went sour but it's not their fault at all.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

I dont think you have been able to overpull for a loooooong time now, even the rare triple pull they allow us every now and then was doable the moment the dungeon was released.
The last "problematic" pull we had was in bardams mettle and before that ... prolly below lv 50 stuff.

Its become a more or less unwritten rule of dutyfinder that if you are 50+ you pull 2 sets or more. As a Tank and healer i can ensure you that if you pull single sets, you might as well go tank and 3 dps because the healer is gonna throw a regen/fairy (or equal) and just dps.

AoE just makes dungeons much faster and while yes its true we have like an hour to finish a dungeon ... that doesnt mean you are expected to spend all that time in it, Guildhests take 1-4 min and have the same timelimit.

Its always the same, DF expects the meta and if you are unwilling, players will look at you funny, and that Meta is woosh the Dungeon. You dont need to do that there is always Partyfinder in which you can state what you goal is before you enter with randos, or you ask your FC mates.

[Veis_Alveare]

People here have a tendency to stick to black and white thinking, where something is either the best thing ever or literally the worst. You're either good or a "troglodyte". There is no in between on the official forums, my friend.

It would benefit a lot of them to just relax more. Outside of Savage and Ultimate, there really isn't any reason to be 100% efficient besides personal choice. No wonder they're crabby all the time.

Based on the fact that I'm the only person around that I see referring to people as troglodytes I'll take this as a passive aggressive subtweet at me.

I will need to put together a burning man glam because of the huge freaking strawman you've built. No wonder you're so combative all the time if you think the only play people deem acceptable is the "best ever" that would be incredibly disheartening.

I just posted a giant "tank basics" post in this same damn page for someone who admitted they were having troubles, complete with reassurance that it might not be their fault as well. Does that track in line with the brush you're trying to paint me (and other people with standards) with? No.

Seems to me the grumpy and uncompromising side is the one who won't even try to do better. I'll take deaths and wipes to people learning and trying to broaden their horizons, you guys are the ones saying to baby pull dungeons because ohno you might have to spend a few hundred more gil on repairs.