Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[EtherRose]

It's baffling that people see a thread with over 1800 likes and 1250 pages and pretend as though there's only a small amount of interest in what is being requested.

Because it technically is small. 1800+ likes is a lot. But compared to the actual player base of FFXIV, it's small. For instance, if there are 50,000 NA players playing and the 1800 likes = 1800 players - that's only 3.6% of the population. Not big. As for the pages, it's mainly the same concentrated small group of people talking/replying.

However, this thread grows tiresome. You guys can keep commenting on how badly you want the other genders. You already know they are going to add them. They added male Miqo'te and female Roe. They will do the same for Viera and Hrothgar. SE dug themselves a hole in this one and they know they need to get out of it. They wouldn't just show concept art of male viera and the be like "Nope, jk". And all of you are negative because you guys basically think SE isn't going to add them so you just sit here in this thread and spam it to keep it on top. SE knows.

And then the counter-arguement comes. "It's been X-amount of time and they haven't said anything on it or added anything". Wait until fanfest. I'm sure they will surprise you guys.

[Fukuro]

Given the fact that the lvl70 24man raids and now the 5.x relic weapons are all tied to Ivalice in one manner or another I doubt it was threads on the OF that made Viera playable. They're one of the most popular and iconic FF races, especially when it comes to humanoids.

well my point still stands? even if the OF didn‘t play a huge role in the inclusion, it still was due to the people asking for them across all boards. (OF, twitter, reddit and other social platforms) so... why again should people stop with „these threads“? people should be thankful for the people asking for them - when they themself play said race in the end. yoshi p also stated he‘s going to collect all the feedback (forums included). if there was enough, they would consider adding them in the future (no hard yes/no). it doesn‘t matter if it‘s solely from the OF.
i just find it funny, when people say threads like these are „unnecessary“ when they themselves play a race that was suggested by the community - in which way ever.
female vieras weren‘t popular „just because“, they were a fan favorite = people asked for them, just like people are asking for the male counterpart to be added (across all platforms).
i was just trying to give an answer to the question „why is this a thing?“

[Senn]

Because it technically is small. 1800+ likes is a lot. But compared to the actual player base of FFXIV, it's small.

I think this might be interesting and relevant. It's a little outdated, though.

So I'm genuinely into numbers at the moment.

Facts:
This thread has the support of a unique individuals* : 1577.
The current active population*** : 583 966.
Thread started : 3-22-2019
This thread has gained the highest amount of likes in all of General Discussion and within the shortest amount of time ever and is now considered one of the top 20 threads in General Discussion.


Sample size calculation:
Margin of Error : 5%
Confidence Level : 95% / Z Score : 1.96
Population Size : 583 966
Deviation : .5
This means that a sample size of only 384 is needed in order to prove demand which has been met within the forums and therefore extends to the greater FFXIV population as a whole. If we wanted to take into consideration of only the forum population (which we will for the time being say the forum consists of only .5%- 1% of the active playerbase, the sample size is considered to be ~330-360).

Poll :
Total Polled : 4763**
Generally against genderlock : 57.62%
Against genderlocked Viera : 54.20 %
Against genderlocked Hrothgar : 56.07%
I am not sure if this poll has been filtered to account for unique submission. Therefore, poll cannot be accounted for unique submissions, but can in someways help see from within and outside of the forums that if a random group of people are polled, there exists demand to unlock the genders. Take into consideration a hefty margin of error of +/- ~7% in all categories ranging from in favor to strongly opposed to account for duplicates from any category.


Someone before mentioned sample size and it's been lingering in my head for some time and thus impelled me to this.
I am not a maths person. Therefore, if a maths person does find a need to correct me please do by all means and with haste !

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* unique individuals means that there can only be 1 like per 1 individual person, cannot be multiple likes from 1 individual.

** the values are fact at this current post's time.

*** active population signifies per the census website 'characters that have claimed the "dress-up raubahn" mount from the 4.1 story - hence we can assume that the real active population is somewhat less than 583 000 as this is not a unique number (an individual can have alts who have obtained this)

This is not directed at anyone specifically, just people in general: This thread has been heavily moderated and even taken down at one point. However, the moderators decided to restore the thread. I'm assuming this decision was made by someone higher up rather than someone they outsourced this job to. The very fact this thread is still up means there is some merit in it existing. If you are unhappy with this, simply block me so it won't be visible to you anymore.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

They wouldn't just show concept art of male viera and the be like "Nope, jk".

Just an FYI, that concept art is from Heavenward's development several years ago.
It has no bearing on Male Viera today...no matter how much people like it.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I think this might be interesting and relevant. It's a little outdated, though.

So, statistically and Mathematically they aren't wrong. One Thousand Five Hundred Seventy-Seven Unique users Vs Over Half a Million...is a small number.

And then looking at that Polling section, do we know and have any means of confirming if all Four Thousand+ users that voted on that poll were actually unique individual users? Because I think I was here when people tried to do a Genderlock Poll on the Viera and Hrothgar when this thread was blowing up, and that Poll didn't require any registered users from like Google or whatever, so it allowed people to vote Multiple times without restriction.
So some of those numbers could be artificially blown up.
Then again it also doesn't mathematically add up if 1577 users support the thread, but then the poll in the thread had 4763 users.

IDK, there could always be other variables, but to me that doesn't add up.

[Senn]

...

You can ignore the poll section and look at the sample size section instead.

The poll section is there just to give us a rough estimate - it's not as accurate as the sample size section which is based on the likes on this thread. Like Virus said... "poll cannot be accounted for unique submissions, but can in someways help see from within and outside of the forums that if a random group of people are polled, there exists demand to unlock the genders." They used a margin of error of +/- ~7%


Here's a conversation about this topic I had with someone in this thread.

Thanks for the explanations. So I'm asking because I'm a bit confused but, since people can't dislike posts, how would 1577 likes be an accurate sample size?
Even though I linked the poll in my first post, I'm not counting that since people could take the survey multiple times.

Forum posters are only a very small fraction of the community, which the active playerbase is somewhere over 580,000 potentially, maybe even smaller as that figure includes potential alt characters. When taking a sample you don’t need a LARGE percentage of the potential respondents, generally a few hundred-a thousand is sampled in most major statistics depending on what they’re testing. Obviously a larger response pool would be more accurate but that’s not feasible with a population this size in most cases. So they used the data that is available and able to be worked with to determine a sample size that would be large enough to show demand , in this case 384 likes would do so. Think of it this way, in any poll you read about, the average sample size is anywhere from 500-1000 and that’s usually accounting for TENS of MILLIONS of people, far more than the community. Statistics allow you to take a smaller sample size and compare it to a larger pool and that’s where the margin of error, deviation and confidence level come into play to say that while it can’t be 100% accurate with this size this is what it’s believed to be with X confidence and could be + or - X%.

When you're talking about sample sizes, aren't those normally done by picking people at random, and not people who all agree on something? The 1577 likes don't take into account the people who don't want male viera. This isn't a random sample size, so would using this still be accurate?
I'm not trying to play devil's advocate or anything, I just want to understand.

It is picking at random since you are not controlling who is liking the thread OP. In this case Virus figured the number of individuals that would need to like (aka show support) to show that there is an overall demand since you cannot tell if the non-likers are in agreement or disagreement or ambivalent. That’s why the number is only 384 needing to like in order to show demand instead of simply saying the 1577 itself shows demand. Essentially on the OP there only needed to be 384 likes, with a + or - 5% margin of error, in order to statistically show there is a demand within the overall community. 1577 like have been given, almost 5x’s the needed number.

That all being said, if I’m mistaking anything with this, and I am only human, Virus or anyone else better versed in statistics can feel free to correct me. this is my explanation for the data provided and I’m fairly sure that’s how it was intended based on my own knowledge on how to read it ^_^

[VirusOnline]

So, statistically and Mathematically they aren't wrong. One Thousand Five Hundred Seventy-Seven Unique users Vs Over Half a Million...is a small number.

And then looking at that Polling section, do we know and have any means of confirming if all Four Thousand+ users that voted on that poll were actually unique individual users? Because I think I was here when people tried to do a Genderlock Poll on the Viera and Hrothgar when this thread was blowing up, and that Poll didn't require any registered users from like Google or whatever, so it allowed people to vote Multiple times without restriction.
So some of those numbers could be artificially blown up.
Then again it also doesn't mathematically add up if 1577 users support the thread, but then the poll in the thread had 4763 users.

IDK, there could always be other variables, but to me that doesn't add up.

Maybe I can offer some perspective.

Staticians must often take polls on large groups of people. But it is inefficient and far too lengthy to attempt to poll every individual. For example you could take a country wide poll and be so accurate as to go door by door and each personne within these households. But I think we'd all agree that this would take up too much time and effort for the sake of complete precision when we're willing to sacrifice a +/- % margin of error in order to get a broad perspective of the greater population. With this theory of random sampling we are therefore able to take a random sample, a small sample vs that large population, in order to be able to do just this. Random is the keyword here.

As I did state in that post, it is unable for us to be able to tell if that poll accounted for unique submission. I found out much later that in fact the poll originally didn't discriminate against unique submissions. Meaning people could poll an unlimited amount of times until the owner of the google poll locked it so that only one unique google account could poll. It's a reason why margin of error exists. But even then, we must still apply a margin of error because an individual can own several unique google accounts.

You must also remember, that this is a forum, whereas a google poll can be linked and participated in by anyone. The likes on this forum are exclusive to only subscribers and registered forum members, the google poll is inclusive to anyone who has a google account and can be linked on many different social platforms like Discord. With this reasoning, it makes complete sense why the google poll would naturally have more responses. You also might be surprised just how many players aren't registered to the forums or don't care to come to these forumns and yet have played the game for years. 2015 I have played since, but didn't come to this place for years because I simply didn't know it existed. I would have liked the original viera thread back then. The fact that there were 400+ likes on that original thread alone was impressive for that time. When SE also did their own polling in 1.22, viera category was at the top, reflecting those likes in that thread, just as the poll for male viera reflects the likes here.

In reference to the sampling, I will admit that this is not a complete random sample. We aren't able to see dislikes, or ambivalence when concerning the likes on the OP. Because the poll was not official, it may not have been dispersed properly so as to get the 'best' randomization. For example if SE hosted an official polling, they would have the main page and other official avenues to broadcast it. What works in favour of unofficial randomization is that anyone with a google account can access the poll, and anyone who is a registered player and forum member can like the OP. This was simply me working with the data we have available to us.

[EtherRose]

Just an FYI, that concept art is from Heavenward's development several years ago.
It has no bearing on Male Viera today...no matter how much people like it.

Even if it's from HW - they can still base it off that. So, it can be a bearing on male viera today. Just because it was concept art from HW doesn't mean they will just toss it out. No one really knows. I'm just awaiting fanfest to actually see if they present the male Viera that everyone wants and the female Hrothgar that is basically non-existent next to male viera in terms of support.

[craybest]

saying "only 1500 people want male" viera because of that poll, is really failing to see how statistics even work.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

Even if it's from HW - they can still base it off that. So, it can be a bearing on male viera today. Just because it was concept art from HW doesn't mean they will just toss it out. No one really knows. I'm just awaiting fanfest to actually see if they present the male Viera that everyone wants and the female Hrothgar that is basically non-existent next to male viera in terms of support.

You're heading for disappointment. I highly doubt they're adding male viera with the next expansion.