Why people still USE ACT knowing their breaking TOS ??

[LittleImp]

Yet that's not what it's used for, and that's the main issue. The very fact that parsers and parse websites for FFXIV involuntarily parse others proves that.

Logging sites have an important function in making pug raiding more viable. The ability to preemptively understand if a given party or player is even capable, and thus worth investing the time in, is an important factor in avoiding potential frustration.

I do however think that certain categories on FFlogs should be opt-in; There's really no reason that that anything outside of content with hard requirements like ex/savage/ulti should be logged by default.

But again- that's not how the parsing system works, the website only lets you opt out but that means the vast majority of players who have no interest in being part of the parsing community, who often wouldn't even know about the website, are forced into it regardless. The thing is, it's never 'enough' for the parsing community to use this for self improvement and clearing premade content- if it were fflogs would purely be an opt in website solely used and solely with information on players who want to use it for self improvement.

Making it globally opt-in would significantly limit its usefulness as part of the pug vetting process in high-end content. There's a decent chance it would lead to people sequestering themselves and refusing to allow anyone who hadn't opted in into their parties. As for causing toxicity "every single time", that's honestly just an absurd claim. ACT usage is extremely widespread, and it's an extremely small minority of users actively using it to hurt others. With most people who use it, you'll just never know.

I have over 10k hours logged in FFXIV over the years, and raid something like 4-5 times a week, usually pugging. In that time I can only recall three cases of actual direct parse toxicity, and I personally reported all 3 cases. The vast majority of toxicity I've encountered in-game has either come in casual settings and had nothing to do with parsing, or from insane Roleplay related drama.

Yet still this topic keeps coming up because SE isn't willing to let parsers openly name and shame or treat others like garbage- because that's really what this is about, SE is letting you use it in a non-toxic way, but people want to use it in a toxic way and are mad SE won't let you.

A lot of people in the high-end community are tired of being unfairly demonized by a subset of the community that is frankly obsessively fixated on something that barely affects them in day-to-day gameplay. If you aren't doing high-end content, there's really no good reason to spend a bunch of energy fixating on this issue. This thread wasn't started by someone who wanted parsers to be allowed publicly; It was started by someone looking to stir the pot and frame people who use them in a bad light. That is the case with many of these threads, and posts on the subreddit.

If you were a roleplayer and people were constantly saying that all roleplay does is cause drama, and that all people that do it are bad people, wouldn't you feel the need to defend yourself and the thing that you care about?

[Katie_Kitty]

Former Bug Hunter for another company, I've an intimate knowledge of how the process works thanks.

Actually what you have is a demonstrable history of shamelessly embellishing your own qualifications and pretending to know more than you actually do. "Former bug hunter for another company" gives you no more insight into forum-related internal processes within Square and the FFXIV team in particular than "Former janitor at another school" would give you into the details of parent-teacher conferences.

[JanVanding]

Actually what you have is a demonstrable history of shamelessly embellishing your own qualifications and pretending to know more than you actually do. "Former bug hunter for another company" gives you no more insight into forum-related internal processes within Square and the FFXIV team in particular than "Former janitor at another school" would give you into the details of parent-teacher conferences.

You've already made your intentions clear, there's a reason you're being incredibly aggressive over this subject and your posting history even highlights a person with bad intentions.

No means no.

It's not happening, you can't have it, no matter how much you behave like a certain character from Willy Wonka the answer is NO.

Also the fact you're choosing to attack what I did and attempt to belittle that job without having any knowledge of the industry yourself just speaks volumes to the true intentions you have for such a tool.

Put it this way, if these threads were being watched, the one where you had a real bad attitude toward newbie tanks who are afraid to learn the role? You'd be sitting in forum jail right now. That should be answer enough that they're not listening.

[Kaizencorr]

Words incoming

[Kaizencorr]

I did a puppet bunker run. It wound up being posted. Which made me happy. As I was looking over my MCH DPS versus a better(more support from party) MCH. I realized that while I had a DNC in my party (I wasn't partnered despite best DPS in my party, but I digress), I only received one technical finish throughout the whole first fight. I took it as I must have been out of range and needed to pay more attention to my positioning. But just in case, I looked at the DNC in questions damage and buffs. Turns out he only had 1 technical step in the whole raid and just wasn't playing well.

I was helping an FC mate with their healer damage in the same raid, first fight. They had 60 casts of glare on their WHM which I thought was decent. Again, just as a thought, I had them reference a savage raider in our FC. While not apples to apples, they had 82 casts of broil. The point of reference still helped to build an understanding of comfortable DPS as a healer. They also learned that they clip their Dia casts too early looking at the amount of tics versus casts.

Having these answer to the 'why' are important. And if you can't agree to find a way to meet in the middle at the very least, you are naive.

[JanVanding]

I did a puppet bunker run. It wound up being posted. Which made me happy. As I was looking over my MCH DPS versus a better(more support from party) MCH. I realized that while I had a DNC in my party (I wasn't partnered despite best DPS in my party, but I digress), I only received one technical finish throughout the whole first fight. I took it as I must have been out of range and needed to pay more attention to my positioning. But just in case, I looked at the DNC in questions damage and buffs. Turns out he only had 1 technical step in the whole raid and just wasn't playing well.

I was helping an FC mate with their healer damage in the same raid, first fight. They had 60 casts of glare on their WHM which I thought was decent. Again, just as a thought, I had them reference a savage raider in our FC. While not apples to apples, they had 82 casts of broil. The point of reference still helped to build an understanding of comfortable DPS as a healer. They also learned that they clip their Dia casts too early looking at the amount of tics versus casts.

Having these answer to the 'why' are important. And if you can't agree to find a way to meet in the middle at the very least, you are naive.

Oh I know that Parsers are very powerful and useful tools when used the right way, which is why I'm pro them being for personal data analysis only as it cuts out the potential for them being used abusively, when used correctly they enhance gameplay experience, when used poorly they're a weapon to beat others over the head with.

So if SE changed their stance (which is extremely unlikely given they used the phrase Never) I'd like them to implement a personal parser that only the player themselves can see and use for its intended purpose.

Like I said, I'm honestly not against them, I used them in other games for personal improvement as they should be, I'm against the potential for abuse that comes from seeing the data of others. Not everyone is going to use it the way you described Kaizen, which is why the data of others is better hidden in an official tool with only your own to ensure it can't be used for the way that some clearly want to use it for but dare not right now because it would see them stripped of their accounts.

Edit: Also there could be potential legal loopholes for them to deal with when it comes to Parsers that deal with the data of others now due to GDPR, which is another reason that the unofficial tool in question is still "Don't ask, Don't tell" because in Europe it falls under a very grey area which could raise all sorts of legal headaches.

[Nabril]

Seeing streamers using these on their stream and also non raiders (group parties/dungeons) maybe ffxiv need to add their own version of parsing to remove need of addons/plugins ???

Because this game was built around challenge. There are difficulty levels called Extreme and Savage plus damage buffs that are best used on the highest DPS performer. You may want to ask Yoshi why he insists on putting challenge in the game if we're not supposed to use tools that help us meet those challenges.

[Nabril]

Yet that's not what it's used for, and that's the main issue. The very fact that parsers and parse websites for FFXIV involuntarily parse others proves that. And games that do fully permit you to treat others like garbage over their parses like WoW have miserable communities with parties that constantly fall apart and despite the widespread use of it are still absolutely packed with horrible players, more so because they refuse to do mechanics if it means sacrificing 1% on a parse.

It is used for that though. There is ample proof that it is used for good. It is also used by good players all over when learning a new class. I use it for that- or I would if I could get the damn thing to work! But I use that in World of Warcraft all the time. It helps. It's a great tool.

It seems to me that many people who don't like it are the ones who don't put in any effort to be good. They just want to hit buttons every now and then without learning their class and are unhappy at the prospect of being called out.

Some of us WANT to know how well we're doing. I want to know.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Because this game was built around challenge. There are difficulty levels called Extreme and Savage plus damage buffs that are best used on the highest DPS performer. You may want to ask Yoshi why he insists on putting challenge in the game if we're not supposed to use tools that help us meet those challenges.

Honestly you don't need parsers or the "other tools people use" to clear these fights. This is evidenced by all the day one clears of content when those tools are broken.

And yes, I do the difficult content. I.'m not amazing, but I'm generally well above average.

[ForteNightshade]

So if SE changed their stance (which is extremely unlikely given they used the phrase Never) I'd like them to implement a personal parser that only the player themselves can see and use for its intended purpose.

A personal parse has little to no intrinsic value without having something to compare against. What does 14,000 DPS mean to someone who has no reference point? They might assume it's a high number, thus they're performing well when in reality 19,000 is where they ought to be. A personal parse is no different than our current sub stat values. Without third party tools and theorycrafter those numbers are entirely pointless since you'd have no way of knowing how much they actually contribute to your damage. Case in point, Tenacity was briefly thought to have huge potential yet due to theorycrafting, it's proven to be more or less forgettable; take it only if there's nothing else better.

As for the whole "no means no." The irony here is by allowing third party parses, people will simply resort to the silent kicks/disbands we do now. Instead of someone actually being able to see why they were kicked and potential improve, they'll just keep getting kicked without a single word spoken.

Honestly you don't need parsers or the "other tools people use" to clear these fights. This is evidenced by all the day one clears of content when those tools are broken.

And yes, I do the difficult content. 8m not amazing, but I'm above average.

Those players clearing quickly are typically much better. Which means the fights, in turn, are easier as a result. When enrages actually become an issue is when you mix in everyone else. You may not "need" them per se but someone woefully underperforming means everyone else now has to compensate for them—something plenty of people dislike.

Nonetheless, parses are what keeps Savage alive long term. Without everyone's favourite site, the higher ilvl is utterly meaningless beyond Ultimate gear. Which brings up a bigger problem. Ultimate would become increasingly more exclusive without parsers. People would be far less inclined to recruit outside their inner circles since they have no way of knowing how that person performs. And DPS matters in Ultimate.