Housing Ownership System Abuse

[Penthea]

Would you stop already with these "It's selfish but not if .... " interjections? Who made you the righteous king to determine what degree of 'selfishness' is allowed and not allowed?

Selfishness is one of the subjects this thread is about. I'm sorry I offended you by showing my opinion about something relevant.

We get it. You think it's bad. Selfish is bad for certain things by whatever your personal standard is. And you want to be on the "good" side like the others against multi house ownership so you don't have to face the mob either. You want to stick to your 'morals' and preach to people what the RIGHT WAY is.

Hmm no it's nothing about not wanting to face a mob. I simply don't feel the need to hoard so I don't do it. A concept that appears alien to you.

And no it's not because I don't have enough gil. It's because I just don't want to. Even if housing was an unlimited resource I doubt I would increase the amount of housing I own. I'm happy with what I have.

You are literally that guy every thread, trying to stay 'neutral' but it's painfully obvious what your intent is.

If you think I am neutral then you don't know me very well or my opinion on this. I have made it clear for years now that I am against house hoarding. I am not neutral. Maybe you're mistaking not foaming at the mouth as an attempt to appear neutral. You don't have to be raging to pick a side.

I personally do not think that hoarding a limited resource is okay.

This is not something a neutral person would say. It makes it clear I disagree with hoarding a limited resource.

It's selfish but" yadda yadda, you continue to push the negative image on people that wanting more is bad. So we're selfish, OK get over it. Keep it to yourself. We all kept to ourselves with our selfishness.

Though some of you may have kept to yourselves this does not change that your actions affect other people, and some of those people feel negatively impacted by those actions. It sounds like you need to get over the fact that people have opinions about the things that you do.

None of us ran out there to rub it in your face.

No one here is rubbing it in your face either. You don't have to come to these forums and reveal you hoard houses. No one is forcing you. And no one is forcing you to overreact to calm posts as if a person vilified you in the most terrible manner possible.

If you want people to stop targeting you first of all you can keep to yourself and stop coming here inviting people to respond to you (because that is how forums work), or even request SE to make house ownership private. As it is now which characters and fcs own which house is public information, and I'm sure you agree that this is an issue for house hoarders.

You tell us that selfish actions affect other players, well don't you think your constant echoing of SELFISH BAD SELFISH BAD is also damaging to people? And then you always cop out with a half-assed answer because you don't want to have a target on your back.

Anything anyone says can affect another person. Whether that's something nice, neutral or bad. This is how conversation works. Welcome to reality.

Also even commenting on this thread has put a target on me, something you have painfully made clear with your disproportionately hostile post.

Like what I said to the other insane entitled player, why don't you go ask a GM if selfish is bad and ask why SE doesn't conform to your views of enforcing selfishness so you can post it out there and say "LOOK SE SAYS BAD MORALS ARE BAD". You aren't contributing everything in your hundreds of cop out posts.

Because GMs are not employed to give their opinions on subjects like content design. GMs are employed to obey strict guidelines on how to handle various issues relating to bugs, exploits and player behaviour, and they must deal with them in certain ways regardless of their opinion. There is likely a clause in their contract that says they are not permitted to give their opinion on content and ToS design while doing their job.

I had a job in which I had to handle situations with guidelines relating to warranty on very expensive products. I was specifically told during my training that I am not to give my opinion on how the warranty handled products, I was only permitted to act within the limitations the warranty service offered.

GMs are support staff. At most they can suggest to their superiors that something needs to change, but that is strictly done internally. A player will never see this. You're only going to be able to get an actual public opinion from SE staff who are devs, those who manage the devs and community managers. You know, the people who actually decide how things are done.

Complaining to a GM about how a game feature works is like complaining to a cashier in a shop that nappies are expensive. The most they can do is pass on the complaint to their superiors. They can't do much about it, and giving their opinion risks an argumentative debate happening. It is frankly unprofessional to allow such a thing to happen if it can be prevented.

[PewPewPewPewPew]

Snip

Then quit being so passive aggressive and be THE FIRST GUY calling out the OP and putting a stop to this harassment.

Why are you picking and choosing when you want to be the good guy? I see you editing your posts in all your forum posts like 10 times within matters of minutes. You are that worried about being met with opposition and have to keep cleaning up what you say after you've already said it.

If you're going to keep coming to these forums to talk rules, morals, and whats right and wrong, how about you be POST #2 every time telling the OP that they are out of line when they are.

[Awha]

Same, things get messy because players need some tangible to blame to they vilify the players instead of just the system.

No matter how you cut it I do not think it is fair to turn a disagreement into a witch hunt. We may have differing views the core of the issue is yes under your standards this is negative action, which is cool. Though under the rule set of the game it is allowed. So pushing ones standards as norm seem kind one skewed. Since the only norms we have agreed to as a community happen to be the ToS.

That is my issue some do not understand the difference between a disagreement of ideals and standards and witch hunt.

In the end ybe standards that matter are t he put in place by SE everything else is kind of moot. We have no obligation to adhere to the standards of other players since hoarding is acceptable by SE due to the nature if the rules. Sure you could argue it I s not the intent or Yoshi-P is not in favor of it. Though if the rules and game system state otherwise even his view / company view becomes just an opinion.

This has been an issue in gaming for ages do not hate the player, hate the game. Seems people have forgotten that.

[Penthea]

Then quit being so passive aggressive and be THE FIRST GUY calling out the OP and putting a stop to this harassment.

Report the post if you think something a person says is abusive. Mods are literally employed to do deal with this sort of thing. And they can deal with the situation with far more impact than I am able to.

I don't particularly want to end up in an argument with OP about how they choose to present their posts. More about this later in this post.

Why are you picking and choosing when you want to be the good guy? I see you editing your posts in all your forum posts like 10 times within matters of minutes. You are that worried about being met with opposition and have to keep cleaning up what you say after you've already said it.

I am not very good at typing so I make typos. And as you know sometimes typos spell out a different word correctly so the little red line won't appear beneath the word. I also sometimes don't phrase things very well so I reword them. I could read my posts more carefully before posting them but I'm human so I miss things. So I edit my posts a lot. If you look through my post history you'll find that almost every lengthy post I have written about anything has edits. I don't change what I am trying to say, I just make what I want to say clearer and correct typos. Nothing special.

And I'm not picking and choosing when I want to be a certain type of person. I just changed how I interact with threads. My opinions did not change at the same time I chose to post things differently. I just present the same opinions in a different manner. More information on this below.

Though I admit I still sometimes end up showing more emotion than I would like to but like everyone else here I am an imperfect creature. I make mistakes.

If you're going to keep coming to these forums to talk rules, morals, and whats right and wrong, how about you be POST #2 every time telling the OP that they are out of line when they are.

Honestly I don't want to get into an overly heated debate with anyone. It's something I did a lot before and it very often ended up being a very unpleasant experience for me. So I took myself out of the equation and decided I will do my best to calmly state whatever it is I want to say. I no longer want to fall into the trap of getting into high-friction arguments that can get so bad they can no longer even be called debates. Not only are these unpleasant, they can derail threads into an exchange of little other than spite, and this is not constructive to any subject.

I no longer want to be a part of debates of the nature that I explained in the previous paragraph, so I took more control over how I present myself. My opinions about housing are very strong but I realised that I do not need to get extremely angry to get my point across.

I disagree with house hoarding. Always have, and always will as long as housing is a limited resource. The only thing that has changed is how I present my opinion on it.

[Kenky]

All of this talk about "Selfish is bad" is pointless and absurd. Being selfish is a basic human nature and to demonize our basic natures is like trying to bring down a skyscraper with a bag of feathers.

Perhaps, instead of attacking others you see as "Selfish" or hoarding something they are well within their right to hoard, perhaps you could.. I don't know. Grow up?

You may not like X, but that doesn't mean we have to conform to your standard of disliking X. Because of this simple point, we look to SE's rules and regulations to act as a guiding compass in these times where "Morals" and "personal feelings" obscure anything and everything.

What's that? The GMs And SE's own Rules say hoarders are doing nothing wrong? Great. Guess that means we should move on. We got a statement from a moderator saying all is okay. But no. You amaro-herders continue to act as if the rules don't apply until they affect YOU.

At the end of the day. EVERY player has the exact same amount of chances to get <Insert plot here> and maybe you could take all this pointless childish bickering and turn it into something productive? Maybe work to get gil in FFXIV, so then when houses do start coming up for sale you may actually have enough gil to buy a Medium instead of a small. Or perhaps learn a new life-skill, like cooking or basic handiwork.

Untill things like this are against the rules, trying to start witch-hunts and harassing other players because they have things you don't is only going to send the wrong message. At any time, if any of you say something that could be perceived as an attack, you could lose your entire FFXIV account and then where will you be?

[Penthea]

What's that? The GMs And SE's own Rules say hoarders are doing nothing wrong? Great. Guess that means we should move on.

Hrmm no just because SE say something is a certain way does not mean players should just move on if they disagree with it. These forums exist partially so that players can point out things they feel is a problem. Like it or not that is feedback.

Perhaps, instead of attacking others you see as "Selfish" or hoarding something they are well within their right to hoard, perhaps you could.. I don't know. Grow up?

I will say that some people need to target the actual issue instead of individuals. Being too specific with your targets just invites others to target you back. People do have a right to be very angry if they feel personally insulted, or if they feel the targeting has gone too far, regardless of what side of the fence they're on. Not to mention how this is an awful way to give feedback. I seriously doubt SE are going to comb through the sea of insults and spite just to find the actual feedback. At most they would delete posts or even entire threads if the friction has reached an unacceptable height.

However it's not as if only those against house hoarding have poor behaviour. In this thread I was essentially attacked for calmly pointing out that having permission to do something does not mean that action is good or neutral, and that the lack of real life consequences does not mean an act cannot be selfish. I honestly felt that this was a poor defense that meant denying basic logic, and I even advised that person to stick to how they're not breaking the rules because that stance actually has some merit. Altering the meanings of permission and selfishness to suit your own goals is not something I would call a solid stance. I did not personally attack the person who was saying these things but I have been treated as if I was. A person may think I said some stupid stuff but I like to think what I said was clearly not done with any malicious intent.

I also was scolded in literally gigantic text for not berating those who are also against hoarding for their poor behaviour. These people are not my responsibility. I am not their leader. If there is an organised group for the subject of this thread well I'm certainly not part of it. I'm acting on my own. I'm not an official representative of anything but myself and my fc. I frankly did not deserve to be essentially shouted at for not doing something that isn't my responsibility to deal with.

I'm not telling house hoarders to tell other less mannerly hoarders to calm down, nor would I be so entitled as to expect them to. Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour. The above seemed like little other than an attempt to make me look bad for not dealing with an issue that isn't even mine to deal with. If you dislike how a person acts, speak with them personally, contact their fc leader, or get SE involved. Don't blame some random person for not handling someone they don't even know. I'm not best buds with everyone who is against house hoarding. I don't even personally know anyone from these forums.

I even got criticised for editing my posts soon after posting them, lol. Who knew a few typos and some rephrasing would create such fire within a person? It feels like someone is searching for reasons to hate me. Oh well. Not much I can do about that.

People on both sides of the fence need to improve their behaviour. These threads won't stop until the issue itself does, but we can at least try to be more civil with one another, even if we disagree.

And in case someone again mistakes me for a neutral person: I disagree with hoarding a limited resource. I always have and always will as long as that resource is limited.

[Yshtola_Cat]

I will say that some people need to target the actual issue instead of individuals.

And in case someone again mistakes me for a neutral person: I disagree with hoarding a limited resource. I always have and always will as long as that resource is limited.

It's already been established that you lack housing knowledge, but your lack of credibility is so apparent when all you complain about is players or FCs with multiple houses, being used, while you're as silent as a plank when it comes to the thousands of players sitting on an empty house. Selfishness you were saying? Interesting...

[Almagnus1]

Why not? it's not like he is killing anybody or breaking any rule and law, it's a game and he win the throphy fair and square by raising the money to bought the land, not every olympic athellete got gold medal.

and this point shaming him and trying to make him lose the house he work hard for is the selfish one.

This is going to get philosophical for a bit, as ignoring everything needed to survive (which is expected behavior), selfishness has caused a fair amount of tragedy and injustice in our world because one group will put itself above another group and disempower them because of the selfish beliefs of the first. Basically, selfishness is the root of evil. It's where greed comes from (as that is being selfish with monetary and physical objects), and it's where a lot of other bad things have sprouted from that I really don't want to get into too deep because that's outside of the scope of this forum.

That said, I understand that not everyone shares that belief, and that's OK.

It's also why I pointed out the disconnect, as that shows why the two sides aren't going to see eye to eye on this, and probably never will. SE's inaction on this has created a situation where no one will be happy.

[Penthea]

It's already been established that you lack housing knowledge, but your lack of credibility is so apparent when all you complain about is players or FCs with multiple houses, being used, while you're as silent as a plank when it comes to the thousands of players sitting on an empty house. Selfishness you were saying? Interesting...

I have said multiple times that I think a player should be able to do what they want with their house, even if it's nothing. But as usual you choose to ignore certain things so you can twist the truth against others. I'm not playing your game. You know the dance by now. Bye bye.

[Almagnus1]

I personally do not think that hoarding a limited resource is okay.

And this is the statement that sums up this entire debate.