Housing Ownership System Abuse

[Miminming]

And this is the entire disconnect right here. It's not OK to be selfish, but this is a point we're not likely going to agree over - so since we're not going to find common ground from this, we're not likely to agree on much else relating this housing cluster.

Why not? it's not like he is killing anybody or breaking any rule and law, it's a game and he win the throphy fair and square by raising the money to bought the land, not every olympic athellete got gold medal.

and this point shaming him and trying to make him lose the house he work hard for is the selfish one.

[Kenky]

All of this talk about "Selfish is bad" is pointless and absurd. Being selfish is a basic human nature and to demonize our basic natures is like trying to bring down a skyscraper with a bag of feathers.

Perhaps, instead of attacking others you see as "Selfish" or hoarding something they are well within their right to hoard, perhaps you could.. I don't know. Grow up?

You may not like X, but that doesn't mean we have to conform to your standard of disliking X. Because of this simple point, we look to SE's rules and regulations to act as a guiding compass in these times where "Morals" and "personal feelings" obscure anything and everything.

What's that? The GMs And SE's own Rules say hoarders are doing nothing wrong? Great. Guess that means we should move on. We got a statement from a moderator saying all is okay. But no. You amaro-herders continue to act as if the rules don't apply until they affect YOU.

At the end of the day. EVERY player has the exact same amount of chances to get <Insert plot here> and maybe you could take all this pointless childish bickering and turn it into something productive? Maybe work to get gil in FFXIV, so then when houses do start coming up for sale you may actually have enough gil to buy a Medium instead of a small. Or perhaps learn a new life-skill, like cooking or basic handiwork.

Untill things like this are against the rules, trying to start witch-hunts and harassing other players because they have things you don't is only going to send the wrong message. At any time, if any of you say something that could be perceived as an attack, you could lose your entire FFXIV account and then where will you be?

[Penthea]

What's that? The GMs And SE's own Rules say hoarders are doing nothing wrong? Great. Guess that means we should move on.

Hrmm no just because SE say something is a certain way does not mean players should just move on if they disagree with it. These forums exist partially so that players can point out things they feel is a problem. Like it or not that is feedback.

Perhaps, instead of attacking others you see as "Selfish" or hoarding something they are well within their right to hoard, perhaps you could.. I don't know. Grow up?

I will say that some people need to target the actual issue instead of individuals. Being too specific with your targets just invites others to target you back. People do have a right to be very angry if they feel personally insulted, or if they feel the targeting has gone too far, regardless of what side of the fence they're on. Not to mention how this is an awful way to give feedback. I seriously doubt SE are going to comb through the sea of insults and spite just to find the actual feedback. At most they would delete posts or even entire threads if the friction has reached an unacceptable height.

However it's not as if only those against house hoarding have poor behaviour. In this thread I was essentially attacked for calmly pointing out that having permission to do something does not mean that action is good or neutral, and that the lack of real life consequences does not mean an act cannot be selfish. I honestly felt that this was a poor defense that meant denying basic logic, and I even advised that person to stick to how they're not breaking the rules because that stance actually has some merit. Altering the meanings of permission and selfishness to suit your own goals is not something I would call a solid stance. I did not personally attack the person who was saying these things but I have been treated as if I was. A person may think I said some stupid stuff but I like to think what I said was clearly not done with any malicious intent.

I also was scolded in literally gigantic text for not berating those who are also against hoarding for their poor behaviour. These people are not my responsibility. I am not their leader. If there is an organised group for the subject of this thread well I'm certainly not part of it. I'm acting on my own. I'm not an official representative of anything but myself and my fc. I frankly did not deserve to be essentially shouted at for not doing something that isn't my responsibility to deal with.

I'm not telling house hoarders to tell other less mannerly hoarders to calm down, nor would I be so entitled as to expect them to. Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour. The above seemed like little other than an attempt to make me look bad for not dealing with an issue that isn't even mine to deal with. If you dislike how a person acts, speak with them personally, contact their fc leader, or get SE involved. Don't blame some random person for not handling someone they don't even know. I'm not best buds with everyone who is against house hoarding. I don't even personally know anyone from these forums.

I even got criticised for editing my posts soon after posting them, lol. Who knew a few typos and some rephrasing would create such fire within a person? It feels like someone is searching for reasons to hate me. Oh well. Not much I can do about that.

People on both sides of the fence need to improve their behaviour. These threads won't stop until the issue itself does, but we can at least try to be more civil with one another, even if we disagree.

And in case someone again mistakes me for a neutral person: I disagree with hoarding a limited resource. I always have and always will as long as that resource is limited.

[Yshtola_Cat]

I will say that some people need to target the actual issue instead of individuals.

And in case someone again mistakes me for a neutral person: I disagree with hoarding a limited resource. I always have and always will as long as that resource is limited.

It's already been established that you lack housing knowledge, but your lack of credibility is so apparent when all you complain about is players or FCs with multiple houses, being used, while you're as silent as a plank when it comes to the thousands of players sitting on an empty house. Selfishness you were saying? Interesting...

[Almagnus1]

Why not? it's not like he is killing anybody or breaking any rule and law, it's a game and he win the throphy fair and square by raising the money to bought the land, not every olympic athellete got gold medal.

and this point shaming him and trying to make him lose the house he work hard for is the selfish one.

This is going to get philosophical for a bit, as ignoring everything needed to survive (which is expected behavior), selfishness has caused a fair amount of tragedy and injustice in our world because one group will put itself above another group and disempower them because of the selfish beliefs of the first. Basically, selfishness is the root of evil. It's where greed comes from (as that is being selfish with monetary and physical objects), and it's where a lot of other bad things have sprouted from that I really don't want to get into too deep because that's outside of the scope of this forum.

That said, I understand that not everyone shares that belief, and that's OK.

It's also why I pointed out the disconnect, as that shows why the two sides aren't going to see eye to eye on this, and probably never will. SE's inaction on this has created a situation where no one will be happy.

[Penthea]

It's already been established that you lack housing knowledge, but your lack of credibility is so apparent when all you complain about is players or FCs with multiple houses, being used, while you're as silent as a plank when it comes to the thousands of players sitting on an empty house. Selfishness you were saying? Interesting...

I have said multiple times that I think a player should be able to do what they want with their house, even if it's nothing. But as usual you choose to ignore certain things so you can twist the truth against others. I'm not playing your game. You know the dance by now. Bye bye.

[Yshtola_Cat]

I have said multiple times that I think a player should be able to do what they want with their house, even if it's nothing. But as usual you choose to ignore certain things so you can twist the truth against others. I'm not playing your game. You know the dance by now. Bye bye.

Oh you have? Show us a top 10 or something because all I can find is your conflicting stances such as:

And I stand by this. It cannot be disputed. You do own your houses. I have never once said you do not own them and I completely agree with your right to hang on to them as long as SE lets you. What I don't agree with is anyone being able to have more than one personal and one fc house per server.

~~~~

You sure like to avoid the subject when you're getting called out huh? How do you expect people to take you seriously when you only point the finger at players with multiple houses. You're making this so easy bun bun.

[Doozer]

It seems like you guys are really starting to get nasty towards each other -- maybe it's time to dial it back, take a breath, and try again?

[Catstab]

It seems like you guys are really starting to get nasty towards each other -- maybe it's time to dial it back, take a breath, and try again?

It's mostly just a moot discussion. One side thinks that official rules should change, and failing that, that all people should be bound to their personal moral set. The other side recognizes the rules, and explores their limits to have as much fun as possible.

If this was framed from a perspective of "Petition for SE to only allow one FC house per account" it would be pretty easy to keep civil. But once it's pointed out that SE is okay with people owning 9 houses per account, the conversation then turns to "well, the people who would do that are evil!" Heck, this particular thread opened up with a name-and-shame screenshot so we could all see how 'evil' someone was for having 8 accounts.

[Doozer]

It's mostly just a moot discussion. One side thinks that official rules should change, and failing that, that all people should be bound to their personal moral set. The other side recognizes the rules, and explores their limits to have as much fun as possible.

If this was framed from a perspective of "Petition for SE to only allow one FC house per account" it would be pretty easy to keep civil. But once it's pointed out that SE is okay with people owning 9 houses per account, the conversation then turns to "well, the people who would do that are evil!" Heck, this particular thread opened up with a name-and-shame screenshot so we could all see how 'evil' someone was for having 8 accounts.

While it's easy to see one side as overreacting or rude while you think the other side is just because it's the side you're on, it's clear people on both sides of this argument are just resorting to name-calling and personal attacks rather than actual discussion. It went off the rails a while ago and no one from either camp has really made an effort to be civil about it.

Even if one side is being extremely immature or rude, that doesn't have to set the tone. You don't always have to stoop to the level of your opponent.