Why don't we hear about egi glamours anymore?

[MariaArvana]

Tis a shame that SE claims they can't do things when the modding community proves them wrong 9/10 times.

Modders also aren't at the whims of tight 3.5 month deadlines where their work has to be fully approved by the higher ups, while also making literally thousands of other models, level meshes, etc each patch. Of course mods can do half the things Square says it can't - they can focus on a singular thing with basically as much freedom of time they want to get it done without interference, deadlines, higher-ups saying to fix things, and all sorts of business red-tape. Remember when Yoshi-P said that Viera/Hrothgar were planned to not have any headgear at all but some of the 3D modelers sacrificed parts of their free time to get a couple hundred pieces of headgear working for them on SHB launch? They literally modded all those pieces to work with Viera/Hrothgar because they gave themselves the extra time to do so(through sacrifice)

When Square says 'they can't', its not a literal 'it's actually impossible to do something', it's simply that they have way more important priorities (read: playable content) to get done before they can dedicate time tackling something low priority. Time is their enemy; nothing else.

But anyway on topic, I do think they should just transition away from Egi's and dive all-in on the Demi-Summons. The demi-summon mechanics feel much more like traditional FF summoners than the egi's. Given the additions in SHB, it also feels like that's the direction they're heading in.

[HeulGDarian]

Modders also aren't at the whims of tight 3.5 month deadlines where their work has to be fully approved by the higher ups, while also making literally thousands of other models, level meshes, etc each patch. Of course mods can do half the things Square says it can't - they can focus on a singular thing with basically as much freedom of time they want to get it done without interference, deadlines, higher-ups saying to fix things, and all sorts of business red-tape. Remember when Yoshi-P said that Viera/Hrothgar were planned to not have any headgear at all but some of the 3D modelers sacrificed parts of their free time to get a couple hundred pieces of headgear working for them on SHB launch? They literally modded all those pieces to work with Viera/Hrothgar because they gave themselves the extra time to do so(through sacrifice)

When Square says 'they can't', its not a literal 'it's actually impossible to do something', it's simply that they have way more important priorities (read: playable content) to get done before they can dedicate time tackling something low priority. Time is their enemy; nothing else.

But anyway on topic, I do think they should just transition away from Egi's and dive all-in on the Demi-Summons. The demi-summon mechanics feel much more like traditional FF summoners than the egi's. Given the additions in SHB, it also feels like that's the direction they're heading in.

Theyre not going to transition away from egis, I see 2 things:
1) if they add another demi but keep the 2 mins rotation then they will probably upgrade the egis to be more powerful. Simply put for 120 second rotation we would have 40 seconds apart every demi, so current egi wont work.
2) The most probable thing is that theyll simply refine or rework the egi gameplay again.
Personally what i want is that they tie the egis and trance, if we re gonna talk about more traditional ,even though im completely against it , Then options was the main characteristic something which the demis completely lack. Substance over spectacle, truth be told though if making the egis better looking will stop this argument ill take a hit of being able to summon them only during combat.

[HeyMcFly]

I wanna glamour my Scholar Fairy into a Carbuncle...

I'd 100% be okay with this- Personally, I'd rather have the actual ifrit/ garuda/ titan forms that you fight- even from the Eden raids- they don't have to be as large obv. Or even just a Siren egi /swoons
But a carbuncle replacing the SCH fairy would atleast be a band-aid to the eye sore egis are.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

What people suggesting Demi-Rotations never seem to realize is that while Demi feel oh-so powerful and spectacular they only get to feel that way because they are juxtaposed with the less impressive Egi.
If they were to make such a rework they'd either have to:
A) Balance all Demi in the Rotation to have the same output, including nerfing the current Demis; losing all feeling of build-up and progression in the process
B) Keep the output of the current Demi the same and have any new "in-between" Demis as weaker variants... which wouldn't be much different from what we have already, so the Devs might as well spare themselves the work

Then theres the issue that people seem to expect a rework to come with new models for the demi-fied Egis, which is just plain unrealistic. More likely it'll go the way MCH did and keep 90% of the aesthetic with only functional changes - likely including the Egis.
And on top of that theres actually a number of people that happen to enjoy SMN as (sort of) pet job, cutting that out would simply be unfair - reworks should never serve to take away entire gameplay concepts - at least in my opinion.

All in all I simply don't believe Summoner would benefit enough from a rework to warrant one; and I hope SE knows this.

Here's a compromise instead: "Demi-fy" the Egi-Actions while keeping the Egi themselves as permanent pets.
What I mean by this making Egi Auto-Attacks dependent on their SMNs GCD and turning Egi Assaults/Enkindles into ranged, targeted Actions.
This would likely fix a good amount of ghosting and Ability queueing issues while retaining the pet job-esque gameplay for those that like it.
It doesnt have to always be one group served to another groups detriment, and not every Job has to reflect ist "traditional" counterpart to a T (this is not only an FF Game, it's also an MMO, and Job design should be allowed to make use of the concepts that come with the medium)

Aesthetically speaking I understand people want updrages to the current Egi, but thats quite literally what Egi-Glams are for. And who knows, maybe in time they'll even get around to upgrading the original 3 Egi.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I wanna have glamour for the scholar fairys :/

Not me. I want my fairies to not be one companion with two models.

[linayar]

What people suggesting Demi-Rotations never seem to realize is that while Demi feel oh-so powerful and spectacular they only get to feel that way because they are juxtaposed with the less impressive Egi.
If they were to make such a rework they'd either have to:
A) Balance all Demi in the Rotation to have the same output, including nerfing the current Demis; losing all feeling of build-up and progression in the process
B) Keep the output of the current Demi the same and have any new "in-between" Demis as weaker variants... which wouldn't be much different from what we have already, so the Devs might as well spare themselves the work

or

C) Increase Demi output since you're losing some output by not having constant Egi presence.

Then theres the issue that people seem to expect a rework to come with new models for the demi-fied Egis, which is just plain unrealistic. More likely it'll go the way MCH did and keep 90% of the aesthetic with only functional changes - likely including the Egis.

It's not unrealistic at all if there is such a rework.

And on top of that theres actually a number of people that happen to enjoy SMN as (sort of) pet job, cutting that out would simply be unfair - reworks should never serve to take away entire gameplay concepts - at least in my opinion.

That's fair, but anything's fair in a rework in my opinion.

All in all I simply don't believe Summoner would benefit enough from a rework to warrant one; and I hope SE knows this.

It's not in need of a total rework, but it certainly could use some. And if there is a rework, I'd rather they rework it completely, but again, it's fair to keep its existing identity.

Here's a compromise instead: "Demi-fy" the Egi-Actions while keeping the Egi themselves as permanent pets.
What I mean by this making Egi Auto-Attacks dependent on their SMNs GCD and turning Egi Assaults/Enkindles into ranged, targeted Actions.
This would likely fix a good amount of ghosting and Ability queueing issues while retaining the pet job-esque gameplay for those that like it.
It doesnt have to always be one group served to another groups detriment, and not every Job has to reflect ist "traditional" counterpart to a T (this is not only an FF Game, it's also an MMO, and Job design should be allowed to make use of the concepts that come with the medium)

I'm ok with this only if this replaces SMN's own actions. I don't like being busy with my own actions while still having to deal with pet actions. Either one or the other for me.

Aesthetically speaking I understand people want updrages to the current Egi, but thats quite literally what Egi-Glams are for. And who knows, maybe in time they'll even get around to upgrading the original 3 Egi.

Maybe...

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

or

C) Increase Demi output since you're losing some output by not having constant Egi presence.

Except your not losing any output since the Egi would simply replaced with a Demi.
We're not talking about a simple removal of the Egi here, this is about replacing them with a full-time rotation of Demis. Emphasis on full-time, meaning there's always a Demi out.

It's not unrealistic at all if there is such a rework.

We've already seen them "reworking" multiple Jobs and ouside of a few exceptions here and there they've simply reused whatever assets they've already had. There's no reason to believe they'd treat Summoner any differently.
So yes, it is absolutely an unrealistic expectation.

That's fair, but anything's fair in a rework in my opinion.

Its never fair to just take something away rather than fixing it; at least assuming it can be fixed, and i see plenty of possibilities for Summoner.

It's not in need of a total rework, but it certainly could use some. And if there is a rework, I'd rather they rework it completely, but again, it's fair to keep its existing identity.

Sure, there are parts that could use some brush up's, I never claimed otherwise.
I just don't see the point in doing a total rework just for the sake of it. Especially since reworks tend to take resources away from other jobs that also need attention, ShB has shown that pretty clearly.

I'm ok with this only if this replaces SMN's own actions. I don't like being busy with my own actions while still having to deal with pet actions. Either one or the other for me.

Good thing then that Summoner already pretty much works like that.
The suggested changes would simply serve to smooth out issues with the pet-queue by aligning it with the SMNs (Egis attacking when the SMN does) and make sure the attacks are performed properly (EAs and Enkindles being ranged and targeted rather then point-blank aoes that can get executed without hitting something)

Maybe...

To be clear, I believe Egi-Glamours might not be too far off.
First Yoshi mentioned a vague timeframe, and now claims he's not "at liberty" to disclose much but still felt a need to mention it, suggesting there might, at last, be something happening.
Wouldn't surprise me if the reason they implemented EAs the way they did is partially in preparation for the System.
Wether the re-do of the original Egi is in the cards I obviously can't say, but anyone who dislikes them can merrily glam them away anyway, so i don't see that as a priority.

[linayar]

Except your not losing any output since the Egi would simply replaced with a Demi.
We're not talking about a simple removal of the Egi here, this is about replacing them with a full-time rotation of Demis. Emphasis on full-time, meaning there's always a Demi out.

Oh, I wouldn't want that. I want Demi to act like they do now. Having giant, permanent pets out is not fun, and resizing is no fun either.

We've already seen them "reworking" multiple Jobs and ouside of a few exceptions here and there they've simply reused whatever assets they've already had. There's no reason to believe they'd treat Summoner any differently.
So yes, it is absolutely an unrealistic expectation.

The fact that there are exceptions means it's not unrealistic. Unlikely would be a more appropriate term.

Its never fair to just take something away rather than fixing it; at least assuming it can be fixed, and i see plenty of possibilities for Summoner.

Then there should be no change ever. Someone can always like something that is taken away every time there is a change.

Sure, there are parts that could use some brush up's, I never claimed otherwise.
I just don't see the point in doing a total rework just for the sake of it. Especially since reworks tend to take resources away from other jobs that also need attention, ShB has shown that pretty clearly.

A job rework should never be just for the sake of it, and I disagree that reworking SMN to use temporary demi instead of permanent pet falls in that category.

Good thing then that Summoner already pretty much works like that.
The suggested changes would simply serve to smooth out issues with the pet-queue by aligning it with the SMNs (Egis attacking when the SMN does) and make sure the attacks are performed properly (EAs and Enkindles being ranged and targeted rather then point-blank aoes that can get executed without hitting something)

I thought SMN was too busy at the beginning of Shadowbringers and I wouldn't want a return to that.

To be clear, I believe Egi-Glamours might not be too far off.
First Yoshi mentioned a vague timeframe, and now claims he's not "at liberty" to disclose much but still felt a need to mention it, suggesting there might, at last, be something happening.
Wouldn't surprise me if the reason they implemented EAs the way they did is partially in preparation for the System.
Wether the re-do of the original Egi is in the cards I obviously can't say, but anyone who dislikes them can merrily glam them away anyway, so i don't see that as a priority.

That's fine. Different people have different priorities.

[HeulGDarian]

A job rework should never be just for the sake of it, and I disagree that reworking SMN to use temporary demi instead of permanent pet falls in that category.
.

it definitely would be for the sake of it. egi gameplay isnt so broken as to necessitate immediate disposal or anything more that a fix/smoothing. It also is a point of appeal, as well as a major point of the jobs identity , summons having powerlevels.

Having the egis work different would be ok , having them be the same as demis wouldnt be.

[linayar]

as well as a major point of the jobs identity , summons having powerlevels.

Thus it's not just for the sake of it. There is a reason for some to desire the change. You can disagree with the reason but it's not a change for the sake of change.

And I also agree that it doesn't have to be prioritized over a smaller rework that simply makes the current version better, but that doesn't take away from the desire for a bigger rework.