Housing Ownership System Abuse

[PewPewPewPewPew]

Bingo.

Grey areas shouldn't exist with rules... because if it exists someone will abuse it.

Aka "this is why we can't have anything nice"

Then the whole game shouldn't exist.
Because everything in the ToS is technically grey area. Rules are not enforced 100% as written. If they were, you'd have already been banned by now for something. SE will have a tough time building a player base if they banned everyone like a totalitarian regime, holding everyone exactly to what is written in the ToS leaving no room for softer interpretation. What you are crying about it a first world problem.

So let's entertain your idea. One person owning all the plots makes you absolutely crazy and you are on a crusade to purge this kind of behavior. Okay.

What do you do when it's an FC with 30 people, everyone using their 1 house 1 fc house rights to own 2 houses and they all coordinate to buy all 60 houses in the ward? Is this also a problem with morals? Is this also grey area? Even though every individual person is a person and they have purchased according to the rules? You going to be mad now because they flawlessly coordinated an effort you are incapable of doing, therefore you need to call foul now? You will never be satisfied because someone will always be ahead of you.

If one person didn't acquire the plots, then 59 other people will have acquired them and you still wouldn't be one of them because there are 59 other more competent people than you who are willing to pull all the stops to get those houses. What's your next complaint then? I'm sure you'll say "Well I'm happy if 59 other people get a house instead of 1 person" to sound like you are taking the high road with your 'morals', but the truth is you still have no house, and you're still going to be bitter.

You will never be satisfied, and now you going so far as to call not just the system wrong, but everything wrong. Look at you making a full interpretation of the rules without consulting GMs while at the same time telling people who are showing you those rules and chat logs that they are wrong. So they are wrong and you are right. Nonsense.

[Sylvastreak]

No one on the forums asking for more housing will ever be satisfied either if anytime housing is added, someone ends up with an entire ward and locks up 60 plots for themselves - whatever DC they're on. But do carry on defending them, at this point I'm really tired of people who claim to not care about other players yelling at me for caring about other players but not caring about this one player's feelings.

[Almagnus1]

What do you do when it's an FC with 30 people, everyone using their 1 house 1 fc house rights to own 2 houses and they all coordinate to buy all 60 houses in the ward?

I already addressed this earlier, and I'm going to ignore the rest of your hyperbolic nonsense that's a total misrepresentation of my position.

Here's the quote:

As long as each account is compliant with the restrictions linked above ( https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ ), I'm fine with that. That means operating a ward is going to take 15 accounts, which is going to work out to be like $2250/year for the entire ward. FYI I'm using my sub cost which is roughly $75/six months or $150/year to estimate this. If someone wants to be a whale and waste their money that way - it's funding FFXIV regardless so we might as well let them.

So in other words, each account reduces down to one personal house and one FC house per account and I'm fine with it.

I'm even willing to compromise on that with the following:

• Throw out the asinine FC per account restriction and have a sane demolish timer if the FC drops below four members (which follows the purchase restriction linked above)
• Give everyone a grace period to either divest the houses or spin up additional accounts
• Give people divesting a 100% refund on the house
• Unbind decorations that would normally be sellable on the market

The really big problem with is SE's inability to pick a set of rules, stick with it, and enforce it equally to everyone. SE should normalize housing and stop making exceptions like grandfathering in people because it's only making a scarce resource even scarcer.

Edit:
And if that assumed person was actually following the restrictions, they'd be spending $8,850/year for the 59 subscriptions needed to own that entire ward. That's a huge chunk of change and if this is something you can't afford to do that's not my problem.

[Catstab]

No one on the forums asking for more housing will ever be satisfied either if anytime housing is added, someone ends up with an entire ward and locks up 60 plots for themselves - whatever DC they're on. But do carry on defending them, at this point I'm really tired of people who claim to not care about other players yelling at me for caring about other players but not caring about this one player's feelings.

The long and the short of it is: SE allows 1 personal house, 8 FC houses per account (or up to 8 personal, 8 FC houses for grandfathered characters.) No one acting within those limits, or purchasing multiple accounts to expand those limits is doing anything wrong.

You can certainly protest that a single account can hold 8 FC houses, but it would seem that is the way SE wants their game to be. I could see the merit of leading multiple FCs on an RP server where each FC has more of a unique 'feel' and 'purpose' rather than just being a gaggle of buddies who want a chat window and a workshop. You don't seem to agree, but unless we get instanced housing for every character and FC, more wards is the best solution.

Might enterprising players who have multiple accounts buy all 60 in one ward like people have done? Maybe, but for that to happen, the entire ward would have to go unclaimed for weeks on end. So show the newly opened wards some love and fill them up organically, rather than letting them rot for a month or three until someone gets inspired to make something out of the empty space by themselves.

[Almagnus1]

So show the newly opened wards some love and fill them up organically, rather than letting them rot for a month or three until someone gets inspired to make something out of the empty space by themselves.

You and I both know this isn't going to happen, or rather, it will happen on Cactuar in a matter of hours (if that) but the smaller worlds are going to have some land baron buy a ward shafting the rest of the population.

Being selfish is not inherently a bad thing. it js your time and money use it as you see fit just operate with the rules.

But it becomes a bad thing when being selfish starts to negatively impact others. We don't live in a bubble, you have to think about those around you.

[PewPewPewPewPew]

You and I both know this isn't going to happen, or rather, it will happen on Cactuar in a matter of hours (if that) but the smaller worlds are going to have some land baron buy a ward shafting the rest of the population.

But it becomes a bad thing when being selfish starts to negatively impact others. We don't live in a bubble, you have to think about those around you.

Someone is always gonna get burned when someone else tries harder. You will never avoid this, its impossible. There are people who care more about certain things in life than you do and are willing to do more for it than you are. You should be happy there are outlets like this existing for people to throw more money at. More money translates into more game development budget. Boohoo that it's not being used on HOUSING, but that money is going in and benefiting the game no matter how much you want to argue that it's at the expense of players suffering in housing. Selfish? Sure okay its selfish. What are you going to say now? More about morals? You are literally just here screaming out loud with the hopes of attracting a crowd large enough to have the upper hand in this discussion. But there will be no resolution for you. Resolution isn't achieved by attacking users. Resolution is only achieved by going after the source, so the people who make this game. Why don't you try contact a GM or something? Why don't you sit down and talk with them and post your chat log to show that you're right, have this argument with them and see what they say. But you'll probably still be dissatisfied with the outcome anyways.

What you people are arguing is to literally stop people from enjoying the game the way they want. You want an enjoyment cap because other people's enjoyment absolutely disgusts you and the only way to fix it is to tell everyone what is the 'right amount of fun' by your personal standards. Since you cannot dedicate X amount of time and X amount of dollars, nobody else should be allowed to do more than what you can because that would be abuse of the system. Pathetic.

[Almagnus1]

Someone is always gonna get burned when someone else tries harder. You will never avoid this, its impossible. There are people who care more about certain things in life than you do and are willing to do more for it than you are. You should be happy there are outlets like this existing for people to throw more money at. More money translates into more game development budget. Boohoo that it's not being used on HOUSING, but that money is going in and benefiting the game no matter how much you want to argue that it's at the expense of players suffering in housing. Selfish? Sure okay its selfish. What are you going to say now? More about morals? You are literally just here screaming out loud with the hopes of attracting a crowd large enough to have the upper hand in this discussion. But there will be no resolution for you. Resolution isn't achieved by attacking users. Resolution is only achieved by going after the source, so the people who make this game. Why don't you try contact a GM or something? Why don't you sit down and talk with them and post your chat log to show that you're right, have this argument with them and see what they say. But you'll probably still be dissatisfied with the outcome anyways.

What you people are arguing is to literally stop people from enjoying the game the way they want. You want an enjoyment cap because other people's enjoyment absolutely disgusts you and the only way to fix it is to tell everyone what is the 'right amount of fun' by your personal standards. Since you cannot dedicate X amount of time and X amount of dollars, nobody else should be allowed to do more than what you can because that would be abuse of the system. Pathetic.

Let's look at this from a purely money point of view:

If we look at award of 60 houses, going by the restrictions, that means it's somewhere between 30-60 subs for that ward... in other words SE is expecting that a ward will require enough subscriptions to generate between $4.5-9k/year (assuming that an annual subscription costs $150). If a player wants to own a ward IMO they should pay for the ward. Why should you get a discount?

Not really if we are operating within the scope and rules of the game we have no obligation to think of those around us.

And that is the exact selfish behavior that has caused this entire debacle. Anyone that shares that line of thinking is part of the problem and they should at least be honest about it.

[Awha]

Let's look at this from a purely money point of view:

If we look at award of 60 houses, going by the restrictions, that means it's somewhere between 30-60 subs for that ward... in other words SE is expecting that a ward will require enough subscriptions to generate between $4.5-9k/year (assuming that an annual subscription costs $150). If a player wants to own a ward IMO they should pay for the ward. Why should you get a discount?



And that is the exact selfish behavior that has caused this entire debacle. Anyone that shares that line of thinking is part of the problem and they should at least be honest about it.

Nothing wrong with putting your own enjoyment above others. It is okay to be selfish, so what exactly is the problem since I fail to see it? Or let me rephrase how exactly is it the problem of the player base that does have?

Thing is you have not pointed out why the player base that is operating within the rules has any obligation to alter their behavior. By what metric can we say their actions are bad, or even. the cause of the current housing system.

Reality is you have grounds to vilify the players. Your beef is with SE but instead of only taking it out with SE you also feel the need to go after the players that are just playing within the scope of the game.

[Awha]

You and I both know this isn't going to happen, or rather, it will happen on Cactuar in a matter of hours (if that) but the smaller worlds are going to have some land baron buy a ward shafting the rest of the population.



But it becomes a bad thing when being selfish starts to negatively impact others. We don't live in a bubble, you have to think about those around you.

Not really if we are operating within the scope and rules of the game we have no obligation to think of those around us. In a world of finite resources there will always be those that have and those that do not. One can be known disagreement with the status quo and can try to change the system but they should not vilify like some have because they do not share the same value system. Problem is some do not understand the difference between disagreement and Witch hunting.

[ramsesh]

Not really if we are operating within the scope and rules of the game we have no obligation to think of those around us. In a world of finite resources there will always be those that have and those that do not. One can be known disagreement with the status quo and can try to change the system but they should not vilify like some have because they do not share the same value system. Problem is some do not understand the difference between disagreement and Witch hunting.

But what am I supposed to do with my pitchfork and my angry feelings about something inconsequential?