Endgame content is too stressfull and difficult

[Gilnomore]

everyone has his preference. like many has said here, if savage is too difficult and you dont enjoy it. just dont do it or you just torturing yourself.

but then again, if you call yourself a raider, savage difficulty is just about right, a 2months or so running should more then enough to clear all new tier savage.

Why we like savage? Because of its difficulty of course! those times when you play with your teammates, everyone shouting in discord "W.T.F" everytime new mechanic shows up and wipe us. is tiring but at the same time, learning the curve and push yourself to the limit is so much fun for raiders. So Square, dont ever lower the difficultly again like what you did in e1-e4

[JamieRose]

So Shiva Unreal has been a good reminder of why EX/Savage endgame stuff sucks. Rude people who scream, yell and point fingers when things go wrong, which is all the time.

Lemme guess. That's part and parcel of endgame, being crapped on by "expert raiders"?

I mean I doubt anyone else here thought about where all that stress was coming from.

[LittleImp]

So Shiva Unreal has been a good reminder of why EX/Savage endgame stuff sucks. Rude people who scream, yell and point fingers when things go wrong, which is all the time.

Lemme guess. That's part and parcel of endgame, being crapped on by "expert raiders"?

I mean I doubt anyone else here thought about where all that stress was coming from.

I've cleared it 4 times with 4 fresh groups and the worst an 'expert raider' did was leave quietly when it was clear the group was incompetent.

On the other hand, I saw lots of 'casual' players taking it way too seriously, particularly people who had run the original fight years ago and saw it as an opportunity to posture and go on an ego trip.

Not saying your experience is invalid, but I don't think it's necessarily tipped one way or the other. The community for this game is fairly toxic in general, and Shiva Unreal is a really frustrating fight for a lot of people so it's bringing out some nastiness from both camps.

Shiva Unreal is tuned in a way that makes it significantly harder to carry people, as compared to the other SHB exs.

[Lunafreya]

Well, it's not for everyone. I used to clear every tier before I decided it is just the same thing over and over again. Maybe now since there is patch downtime i'll try to get into savage again but for the longest time it's always been the same thing. If you are not doing ultimate or have no plans to do it then I think savage is largely pointless because it won't help you be a better player even if you are decked out in BiS. Trust me, I used to be huge on BiS getting so lucky with all my static raid healing pieces and always trying to test my abilities to the max but... for what? That's what I asked myself. The fights were incredibly fun but after 4 months you lose your satisfaction with the gear you had and then you start all over again and it's always the same thing everytime... 4 bosses with new mechanics but maybe on the first raid day or two you'll already push into the 4th turn. Perhaps it just feels a little disappointing to me that it lasts months but you can clear them very fast. Obviously I haven't touched savage since omega so I really dont have room to talk as I dont know the difficulty of those 7+ floors I missed but I will say that if I put in the time even in PUG I can probably do it. But is it worth it? Not really.... and to be honest I really do think raids should be more interesting and not just be boss rushes. Maybe put some variety... or just make raids more mechanically different before you get to the boss. That's just my point of view and no I have not cleared any ultimates because I never will have time with my busy schedules but I always laugh when people say savage is too easy and then go into ultimate with programs that call out the entire fight for them. It's like what you thought savage was easy and now you want a bot to make you win ultimate? The playerbase never knows what they want with raids. Do you want them difficult or not difficult? That's the golden question.

[Anya_Synia]

So Shiva Unreal has been a good reminder of why EX/Savage endgame stuff sucks. Rude people who scream, yell and point fingers when things go wrong, which is all the time.

Lemme guess. That's part and parcel of endgame, being crapped on by "expert raiders"?

I mean I doubt anyone else here thought about where all that stress was coming from.

No, no one should put up with abuse. However I do think you were unlucky with your parties, as the majority of people are pretty decent and have patience.

Also it depends on what party you joined, people have higher expectations with farm/reclear parties than just a practice one. However this doesn't give a party an excuse to be toxic.

If you get a toxic party just leave it and try another, there are loads of PFs for Shiva Unreal atm.

[Puremallace]

So Shiva Unreal has been a good reminder of why EX/Savage endgame stuff sucks. Rude people who scream, yell and point fingers when things go wrong, which is all the time.

Lemme guess. That's part and parcel of endgame, being crapped on by "expert raiders"?

I mean I doubt anyone else here thought about where all that stress was coming from.

No that is called PUG culture and hiding behind anonymity. People really do forget there is a harassment policy in this MMO that is enforced and I strongly suggest people use it. My patience for dealing with children these days is at a minimum. Sometimes the trash needs to be taken out and people reminded there are consequences for their actions.

Also any "hardcore" raiders who pug anything in an MMO are automatically a joke if they yell.

[MistakeNot]

So Shiva Unreal has been a good reminder of why EX/Savage endgame stuff sucks. Rude people who scream, yell and point fingers when things go wrong, which is all the time.

Lemme guess. That's part and parcel of endgame, being crapped on by "expert raiders"?

I mean I doubt anyone else here thought about where all that stress was coming from.

That is not an example of why endgame stuff sucks. It is an example of why running with random people sucks.

[Besame]

There is plenty of savage or more difficult raiding for the experts, I'd just like to see MSQ group dungeons easy mode for the ones that do not raid much or at all.

[Stepjam]

There is plenty of savage or more difficult raiding for the experts, I'd just like to see MSQ group dungeons easy mode for the ones that do not raid much or at all.

What do you mean? Everything that isn't extreme or savage IS easy mode. Normal and alliance raids may cause some deaths/wipes at launch, but after a week or two, they generally go pretty smoothly too.

[Katie_Kitty]

Different folks want the game to be different things. A pretty normal human situation involving personal preferences. Apparently, some players want the game to be a challenge for the cut-throat, elitist, 8-hour-a-day crowd.

Others want the game to be an entertaining, diversion and pleasant escape from reality for a while more than a dedicated job requiring blood, sweat and tears to compete in. I think the majority probably falls into the latter category. It's just that the former group tends to be a lot louder about whining to get their own way.

May the majority rule!

well that's a pretty ridiculous argument if you ask me. Nobody is saying the game should be anything, what we are saying is that there's no need to take content that was meant to be hard and change it so it's easy. In fact, I would argue it's the other side arguing we should change the game to accommodate them because they can't fathom the concept of there being content they don't wanna do.