Did people even ask for changes to AST, like they do / did for MNK and MCH?

[Semirhage]

Yes, but with 5.0 Whm now and with 4.0 Ast / Sch, I'd believe would be satisfactory.

I don't think I'll ever understand this community's open double standard when it comes to WHM. One nuke + 1 dot + random occasional oGCD heal? Wonderful, amazing, best the job has ever been. Oh we're talking about a job that's not WHM? Horrible, awful, need to revert immediately, why would anyone enjoy this.

All I'm saying is, now that all three healers have been dumbed down to approximately the same level of boredom, I find it really interesting that most of this forum thinks this is both a wonderful thing for WHMs and a terrible thing for everyone else. Really gets the noggin joggin'.

[Recon1o6]

I don't think I'll ever understand this community's open double standard when it comes to WHM

Actually no, most whm's on this forum want more than just holy/glare/dia with the occasional blood lily. Its usually the other healers that want whm to be treated as the "beginning" healer when that shouldn't be the case. Conjurer is the beginning healer, not whm.

Ask any whm and you'll find that they want 3 things
1. More dps options
2. raid utility to avoid slipping back to HW's boot out by optimising idiots parties
3. the constant stripping of whm staples and nerfs to holy to cease

[Absurdity]

I don't think I'll ever understand this community's open double standard when it comes to WHM. One nuke + 1 dot + random occasional oGCD heal? Wonderful, amazing, best the job has ever been. Oh we're talking about a job that's not WHM? Horrible, awful, need to revert immediately, why would anyone enjoy this.

All I'm saying is, now that all three healers have been dumbed down to approximately the same level of boredom, I find it really interesting that most of this forum thinks this is both a wonderful thing for WHMs and a terrible thing for everyone else. Really gets the noggin joggin'.

I don't think people are really happy with WHM either, just that WHM in SB was so bad that they take anything they can get at this point. ShB WHM, while still not great, is a significant improvement over 4.x WHM whereas SCH got completely butchered and AST had it's fair share of terrible design decisions as well.

[ForteNightshade]

I don't think I'll ever understand this community's open double standard when it comes to WHM. One nuke + 1 dot + random occasional oGCD heal? Wonderful, amazing, best the job has ever been. Oh we're talking about a job that's not WHM? Horrible, awful, need to revert immediately, why would anyone enjoy this.

All I'm saying is, now that all three healers have been dumbed down to approximately the same level of boredom, I find it really interesting that most of this forum thinks this is both a wonderful thing for WHMs and a terrible thing for everyone else. Really gets the noggin joggin'.

It's more to do with people accepting White Mage as the lesser of three evils. While equally flawed in its tediousness. White Mage's simplicity works better because that's always been the overall focus of the job. Scholar, meanwhile, lost a huge amount of its identity as the more DPS focused healers that managed a pet. While Astro had its whole card system revamped—a change many players still hate. Basically, White Mage's gimmick worked. Absurdity also brings up a good point. This is the first time since Creator White Mage is actually valued beyond being the "prog healer." Last expansion, you were pretty much expected to play Astro even in mid-core statics not only due to FFlogs but because Astro was objectively better in nearly every category.

[Semirhage]

It's more to do with people accepting White Mage as the lesser of three evils. While equally flawed in its tediousness. White Mage's simplicity works better because that's always been the overall focus of the job. Scholar, meanwhile, lost a huge amount of its identity as the more DPS focused healers that managed a pet. While Astro had its whole card system revamped—a change many players still hate.

Oh I get that- I'm just trying to tease the premises behind one of the prevailing opinions around here to their logical conclusion. So we have the boring simple healer and the two complex healers. The complex healers became boring and simple too. What makes me roll my eyes is the suggestion that we return the two more complex healers to their former glory, but starting from the boring and simple 5.x is good enough for the WHMs. Making it less boring is a task to be solved going forward. Or something. Which I think is partially highlighted here:

This is the first time since Creator White Mage is actually valued beyond being the "prog healer." Last expansion, you were pretty much expected to play Astro even in mid-core statics not only due to FFlogs but because Astro was objectively better in nearly every category.

Excellent! Finally a place outside being a throwaway progression healer. I don't think this is a point in 5.x WHM's favor. It's because the two perenially overpowered healers got hit by a bus. I guess the flaw I see here is that A) making SCH and AST overpowered "good at everything" healers again, while also B) keeping WHM as Babby's First Healer who's only good at direct damage and direct healing are two concepts that to me smell like they inevitably lead to...well, a healing landscape where WHM is the job that gets trashcanned by the two that are just better in every way. Again.

I'd like all three healers to get a deluxe spa treatment and emerge in 6.0 as fun, smooth, and great jobs. What I disagree with is the implicit claim that "the significantly simpler healer" versus "the complex healers" is a tractable problem that we'll just iron out in design details. I think pigeonholing WHM in the "braindead simple healer" category is exactly the cause of its tedium and chronic underpowered state, and trying to "bring it up" to the other two while also enforcing this "pressing more than three buttons is too hard" identity on it is only going to end in exactly what happened in Stormblood. But hey, at least ASTs and SCHs were having fun then.

[bundythenoob]

I'd like all three healers to get a deluxe spa treatment and emerge in 6.0 as fun, smooth, and great jobs. What I disagree with is the implicit claim that "the significantly simpler healer" versus "the complex healers" is a tractable problem that we'll just iron out in design details. I think pigeonholing WHM in the "braindead simple healer" category is exactly the cause of its tedium and chronic underpowered state, and trying to "bring it up" to the other two while also enforcing this "pressing more than three buttons is too hard" identity on it is only going to end in exactly what happened in Stormblood. But hey, at least ASTs and SCHs were having fun then.

It's definitely possible to make WHM more complex while keeping its "simple" roots. if anything I definitely think aero 3 needs to return and fluid aura needs to play an integral part of its dps rotation. there should be a rework to divine benison that makes it act like the healer equivalent of TBN, something to spice the gameplay up. I can't really think of any ways to do it myself, but hopefully they hire a healer developer who can, because going forward they need to keep all of the healers balanced, or else SHB was all for nothing

[Reyna_Balmore]

I don't think I'll ever understand this community's open double standard when it comes to WHM. One nuke + 1 dot + random occasional oGCD heal? Wonderful, amazing, best the job has ever been. Oh we're talking about a job that's not WHM? Horrible, awful, need to revert immediately, why would anyone enjoy this.

All I'm saying is, now that all three healers have been dumbed down to approximately the same level of boredom, I find it really interesting that most of this forum thinks this is both a wonderful thing for WHMs and a terrible thing for everyone else. Really gets the noggin joggin'.

Yea, I would explain myself, because I guess it isn't obvious as I thought it should have been, but the responses above pretty much explains it all.

BUT, I would add that they should use 5.0 Whm, 4.0 Ast / Sch as a base to build off of and improve even further