Something in 5.3 MSQ felt off to me (SPOILERS)

[SamSmoot]

Maybe Minfilia's not actually dead. I mean, Ryne doesn't have the Echo—she wasn't able to hear Hydaelyn's voice during the starshower scene in 5.2. And Minfilia did have the Echo, so it stands to reason that despite the whole "Minfilia reincarnation" thing, Ryne and Minfilia's souls aren't fragments of the same original soul. And if that's the case, it leaves me wondering just how merged their souls really are.

But yeah, Ardbert just spontaneously manifesting himself through our body. It was heartwarming, to be sure, but definitely a little confusing.

I just completed the crystal tower and 5.3 MSQ last week, and I don't remember any of this. I didn't skip any of the cutscenes, but then, I didn't find them very engaging either.

[Rosenstrauch]

The Ryne bit is easily missed, as she only mentions not being able to hear Hydaelyn if you pick a specific dialogue option in the scene where Moren explains the origin of the Warrior of Light to (You), Alphinaud, Alisaie, and Ryne. If you don't remember it being said, you probably just picked a different dialogue option. But if you don't remember the scene itself, I don't know what to tell you—you can watch it right now at any Unending Journey book in the game.

EDIT: I have screenshots of her exact dialogue, in fact. I found them curious enough on my first viewing to do so, and have been wondering about them ever since.

The bit with Ardbert is during the post-Trial quests wherein you go around the various Norvrandt zones. In Il Mheg, Urianger gives you Ardbert's Crystal of Light and bids you take it to Seto, Ardbert's old Amaro companion in Wolekdorf. And when you do, you ask him to close his eyes, and when he does, you get a fairly lengthy scene in which Ardbert replaces your character model and carries on an actual conversation with Seto.

[Hycinthus]

Yes, so much yes to this.



Oh! I like this one too! It's a much more simple and even elegant interpretation. Makes the scene it not so much about larger themes or plots in the story, but a much more simple compassionate moment for Seto. It's a very different take! Thank you so much for sharing it!

I'm really so glad I created this thread


-Viv

Yes, you should try select the second option “close your eyes”, and it feels more like what i stated here.

[Rosenstrauch]

Yes, you should try select the second option “close your eyes”, and it feels more like what i stated here.

To quote the Level 80 DRK Quest:

"Now comes your part,
To cloak yourself in the fiction,
To breathe life into the dead,
To give a voice to the voiceless..."

I think I'm glad to prefer your take, and not just because I find the alternatives to be unsettling—it really does fall in line well with that quote.

[DiaDeem]

Yes, you should try select the second option “close your eyes”, and it feels more like what i stated here.

Yes! But then I made the mistake of over-complicating my interpretation of the scene. I made such a mess in my own mind with so many wild and unsettling ideas. Yours is such a simple yet perfectly fitting interpretation. I feel like quoting Rosenstrauch word for word:

I think I'm glad to prefer your take, and not just because I find the alternatives to be unsettling—it really does fall in line well with that (DRK quest) quote.

I think that's exactly where I'm landing.

I never did the DRK quest (Always was happy with PLD then ended up leveling GNB as 2nd tank) but seeing that quote and knowing both ShB and the DRK story come from the same writer, suddenly all seems so simple! I really need to do the DRK quest line.

I'm feeling much better about the conclusions reached in the thread. I was so unsettled/uncomfortable after 5.3 wrapped up, but not anymore! I'm also glad to see that others have too been enjoying the conversation of the thread!

-Viv

[Fynlar]

I never did the DRK quest (Always was happy with PLD then ended up leveling GNB as 2nd tank) but seeing that quote and knowing both ShB and the DRK story come from the same writer, suddenly all seems so simple! I really need to do the DRK quest line.

Gonna drop my +1 here for the DRK quest line. It's easily my favorite among all of them.

Also just going to mention this; don't forget to keep an eye on the DRK quest journal entries as you do them. I won't elaborate any further on that, but still mentioning it because it's easy to overlook and the game never actually points you toward doing so.

[Lhunuial]

Gonna drop my +1 here for the DRK quest line. It's easily my favorite among all of them.

Also just going to mention this; don't forget to keep an eye on the DRK quest journal entries as you do them. I won't elaborate any further on that, but still mentioning it because it's easy to overlook and the game never actually points you toward doing so.

also gonna drop my +1 for the DRK questline: It absolutely is one of my favourites. It is the best storyline with how it ties in to what has happened to you during the story.

[Penthea]

Well Ardbert speaking through the WoL's body is quite different to what we have seen the ascians do for the simple fact that it's clear the WoL allowed Ardbert to have that moment. The ascians don't give the owners of their bodies any choice.

I also don't think the scene with Seto was as literal as it looked. I think we saw Ardbert so we as players could better understand what was happening. I think the WoL told Seto to close his eyes so he would no longer be distracted by how the WoL looked and would be in a better position to hear Ardbert's soul. It may even have been a trick of the aether that made Seto hear his voice.

I look upon the whole WoL/Ardbert/Azem thing like a form of reincarnation. Yes each shard is a different person but so far we have seen that what made Azem stand apart from their fellow Amaurotians are the same things as what make Ardbert and the WoL stand apart from their people. The tireless sense of justice, wanting to help those in need, willing to traverse long distances to fulfill their duty, tackling their problems with the allies they picked up along the way, and of course the burning desire for adventure. They're all different people, but their values and desires link them together.

I understand why OP feels unsettled that the WoL may be suggested to not be their own person however I interpret it as these shards of the soul are pieces of a puzzle. Sure a complete puzzle does display only one picture, but you can still see the edges around all the individual pieces even when the puzzle is complete. Once the puzzle is cut into small pieces, it can never fully merge into a perfect singular item again. I feel it is the same for Azem. Even if the WoL were to rejoin with all the shards of their soul, the pieces while fitting together nicely would not merge into a smooth image. Like a puzzle we would see the image that is Azem, but also all the edges of the other souls combined to make them.

And it is for this reason that I believe the ascian's plan was doomed to fail from the beginning. Even if they rejoined all the souls none of them would be the same as they were before the sundering. We have the Echo from being an Amaurotian, but I think they too would have the Echo of their mortal lives. Once something is shattered it will never be the same again, even if you put every single piece back together. The ascians' success would have been met with the harsh reality that you cannot unbreak something back to perfection. You can merely glue it back together.

[DiaDeem]

I interpret it as these shards of the soul are pieces of a puzzle. Sure a complete puzzle does display only one picture, but you can still see the edges around all the individual pieces even when the puzzle is complete. Once the puzzle is cut into small pieces, it can never fully merge into a perfect singular item again. I feel it is the same for Azem. Even if the WoL were to rejoin with all the shards of their soul, the pieces while fitting together nicely would not merge into a smooth image. Like a puzzle we would see the image that is Azem, but also all the edges of the other souls combined to make them.

I can see what you're saying, and I can respect it, but I just can't agree with it. I don't think there's any puzzle to be built at all anymore. Every single soul is unique, and each one of them is their own person. No matter how similar or compatible two souls may be, the end result of something as volatile as a merging is the dominant soul just becoming more dense/strong with whatever's left of the other. Seto being able to see traces of Ardbert is the result of an incredibly specific and unique trait to himself. It's not the type of thing that people like Shtola, Ryne, Feo ul or even another Amaro that wasn't Seto could see. Such a unique trait would then let the WoL enact those previously quoted lines from the DRK story:

"Now comes your part,
To cloak yourself in the fiction,
To breathe life into the dead,
To give a voice to the voiceless..."

This is why the Ascians' plan is so unforgivable and why it is so important to stop them. They're willing to end million of individual existences for the sake of attempting to restore souls/people long gone. The cost is just inconceivably high. A dominant soul in a merging isn't even the original one either, but an entirely new individual. There's nothing left to reconstruct. Elidibus failed to see this.

Someone said it before, and I agreed with them: Not a fan of this whole "souls merging" thing. I hope future stories in the game can put the whole thing behind. It's too convoluted for its own good and for me to enjoy it really.

Thank you for your fully honest reply! It was an interesting read regardless of differences in opinions

-Viv

[Limonia]

I don't like this aspect of the game as well. Why did they made it so that Ardbert kind of is "inside me"?

If it were so that because we a part of the same sundered soul, Ardbert's soul somehow manages to travel with you. But I hate that my character is speaking with his voice, and that he kind of controls my body or whatever to hug his Amaro.

But I also didn't like that aspect of the Dark Knight questline (except for the Sidurgu and Rielle arc, I really enjoyed that one). It was interesting and well written, sure, but I'm not seeing my character as a psychopath with multiple minds, not even remembering things they've done.

I'd prefer it if my character just were herself. Or having a personality disorder is optional, through the answers you can give. It's enough if I'm not exactly normal irl. ;D