Thread: Something in 5.3 MSQ felt off to me (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I too appreciate the conversation! I've realized we're probably not gonna see eye-to-eye with the whole Ardbert situation, but as I've stated before, I just needed to talk about the topic with more people. I couldn't hold it in, it was somewhat eating me. Now we're all sharing different theories!

About the pixies: You'll remember how it is very much clear that An Lad is the previous Titania's reincarnation, yet Tyr Beq very much states how they're thankful you "Set their departed friend free", much akin to how Seto spoke of Ardbert when he receives his crystal. Even though An Lad is the previous Titania, they're also their own new individual. That's why it's really sad how they continue to have all the pain of their old selves, while being now An Lad. Thankfully Tyr Beq, Ezel and the WoL befriend An Lad, but I think it speaks of this whole theme of "being your own self" that runs through all of ShB, with the Amaurotian's stories, the value that Emet couldn't see in sundered souls, Ryne and Minfilia's arc and finally Ardbert passing on through the merge with the WoL.

Though like I said, it's fine if we don't end up agreeing on like a single truth or whatever. This has been a lot of fun!

lol yeah I remember it and yeah no hard feelings at all. I am enjoying this completely and while I don't agree it is very interesting. =) I definitely agree that the souls are all different no doubt about that, Ies pecially since the person who carried the soul was somewhat different than our PC. However, i saw that scene as very endearing and heart warming. As well as giving him one last chance to say goodbye to his Partner in Crime. But yeah, how can I put this... while there may have been a small possibility that the crystal helped with it, I sort of doubt that was likely.m, but thats still my opinion. Lol of course I end up losing my train of thought go figure

Edit: should we start a we want Feo Ul minion thread again?

Edit 2: so I re read what you said about forced souls.... yeah I absolutely don't think he's living as a forced soul inside of our body... maybe that is were the whole wires crossed... I'm thinking as in hes completely merged with our PC and has become one with us, however that doesn't mean that he in essence is truly gone. Nor does it also mean that we could call upon his likeness and voice whenever we pleased, best example was when we desperately wanted to talk to him but Elidibus showed up in said Ardbert's meat suit. I also don't think we magically called him forth but with our help and Seto's ability to see his Master's soul (and it being merged with ours) that we could help bring it more towards the front (so to speak) and give them the final farewell and closure. The Pc also acted more as an intermediary for the two while most of the speaking was going on via more of a Soul communion (via minds eye or third eye for Seto) and we just got to hug a giant amaro for it.

Originally Posted by Rannie

Edit: should we start a we want Feo Ul minion thread again?

Edit 2: so I re read what you said about forced souls.... yeah I absolutely don't think he's living as a forced soul inside of our body... maybe that is were the whole wires crossed... I'm thinking as in hes completely merged with our PC and has become one with us, however that doesn't mean that he in essence is truly gone. Nor does it also mean that we could call upon his likeness and voice whenever we pleased, best example was when we desperately wanted to talk to him but Elidibus showed up in said Ardbert's meat suit. I also don't think we magically called him forth but with our help and Seto's ability to see his Master's soul (and it being merged with ours) that we could help bring it more towards the front (so to speak) and give them the final farewell and closure. The Pc also acted more as an intermediary for the two while most of the speaking was going on via more of a Soul communion and we just got to hug a giant amaro for it.

I really liked your second edit. Even if the crystal plays less of a role than what I give it credit for, Seto's unique skill would still make the situation very specific. This is probably one of the best interpretations I've read so far. It addresses both the scene and how Ardbert isn't really a conscious forced presence within the WoL. It may not be a full-agree with everything, but picture that: we actually share some kind of middle ground here, so that's something!

And YES I SO want a Feo Ul minion. Fuck, I'd do a whole set of quests with Feo about whatever just for the sake of having more of the character. I loved so much that one scene right before going to The Tempest for the first time where they are like "You know, I could just give you my crown. You could be in the castle and all of Il Mheg would rise to defend you from anything" or something like that. The plot is at a super low point, the WoL is pretty much a walking corpse, and here comes Feo with this beautiful and incredibly selfish solution that could actually work, and even though both the WoL and Feo know there's no way they're taking that solution, Feo bringing it up at all just put a smile on my face. Kinda made feel like... "Even if all goes to hell, this could still work" and like gave me this tiny bit of joy during a very dark time in the story.

So yeah: More Feo Ul Please!!
Edit: And more fae-themed glamour sets

-Viv

all in all crossed wires and me badly explaining myself was the issue LOL and YES FEO UL minion!!!

Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

All this soul merging stuff feels a little too convoluted for my liking at this point.

Yes, so much yes to this.

Originally Posted by Hycinthus

I don’t see it as Ardbert speaking to Seto at all. In my opinion, since we asked Seto to close his eyes, I felt that it was me who did the speaking and asked Seto to “suspend disbelief a bit”, and me who wanted to provide Seto closure. Of course I knew a lot about Ardbert hence I would know the things I needed to say. In that way, Seto, missing Ardbert so greatly, was able to suspend disbelief, even purred uncontrollably when we petted him, and reconnect in a way with Ardbert, even though it was just me.

Oh! I like this one too! It's a much more simple and even elegant interpretation. Makes the scene it not so much about larger themes or plots in the story, but a much more simple compassionate moment for Seto. It's a very different take! Thank you so much for sharing it!

I'm really so glad I created this thread

Originally Posted by Iscah

For a while after 5.0 I was referring to him as "G'raha Exarch" when differentiating between him and his younger self, since it fit the pattern and calling him "the" Exarch seemed a bit impersonal, but I think then once we got the patch quests it was clearly how the characters continued to refer to him in person so I stopped doing that.

I've just been calling him "Graha" after 5.0 and I guess I never thought of the whole Tia/Nunh thing up until now. I suppose Shtola is right about using his full name till he says otherwise? I'm so glad he's staying for the long run! I was so sure he was gonna be a casualty of 5.3

Also, I couldn't find Ryne at the Crystarium (checked Ocular too), Eden itself (and the camp outside) or anywhere in Amh Araeng. Hopefully someone finds her soon. Wanna see what she has to say, and I must tell her Dadcred made it safely back to the Source.

-Viv

Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Something about that conversation is really starting to bug me. His line about "being possessed of his younger body" suggests that we're talking to the Exarch, while his line about merging with himself identifies the Exarch as "the older me", implying we're talking to the younger G'raha Tia.

He possesses memories of being both people, of course. And he's lived from both perspectives. But with the way he talks, it seems less like one person with two people's memories and more like two separate people sharing the same body. Who have all the same memories, but still think from their own perspectives. And they don't even realize they're doing it, since they still see themselves as one person.

I've definitely floated the possibility, though if it's the case then it's happening at a more subtle level than the ohter cases we've seen of two minds in one body: Estinien/Nidhogg and Soroban/Genbu, where both get their own named subtitles and switched camera angles as one and then the other speaks.

It alternately seems quite likely to me that even if he has completely merged then it's inevitable that he slips and slides between the two personalities or perspectives because they're both equally recent to him. He can simultaneously remember that a week ago he was at the Crystarium and a week ago (not counting his time asleep) he was preparing to venture into the World of Darkness with us.

We simply cannot comprehend what it would be like to wrap your mind around that experience because our mind and memory are inherently working from a single point in time. His mind would be in two places at once.

He's also most likely still getting used to everything as well. When we see him at the end its been only a few days after his waking.