Something that kills immersion totally for me and feels really bad. Read inside

[Celz88]

When my character, let's say a lvl 1 rogue, uses his damaging ability, the character animation attacks twice. Normally this wouldn't be so bad, but the damage numbers (and loss of life on the mob) appears on the first hit instead of the second. This makes it feel like the second attack of the animation is completely useless. Why would the character attack twice if the damage appears instantly? It feels stupid and really bad because the 2nd animation is pointless. It ruins the WEIGHT of the ability and it doesn't feel satisfying.
And I know the developers understands this concept because the lancer's first ability has a small delay for when you press it until the damage shows up because it makes sense for the damage to appear at the same time as the actual animation strike hits. Why would you give Lancer this level of detail but not rogue or samurai?

So these issues aren't as bad (seemingly) on lancer, but on rogue and samurai, it is terrible. Samurai pretty much ONLY has abilities that has 2 attacks in the animatinon, and the damage appears on the first hit on all of them.

This COMPLETELY ruins immersion for me and for many others also. I cannot believe this game has been out for 10 years without this getting fixed.

My suggestion is to make 2 separate damage numbers appear for each individual animation in the ability, or make the damage appear at the end of the animation where it makes sense instead of at the beginning.

As Kevin Jordan, lead designer of WoW classic and Burning Crusade says, and Steven Sharif, lead designer of Ashes of Creation says, nothing is more important in an MMO than the feel of combat and it feeling responsive and fluid.

The combat in this game for the reason above alone makes it feel very bad to the point where I'm having a hard time enjoying the game. I don't have very many complaints outside of this though but this is a BIG one.

I really hope this gets read by someone who can make a difference in the game, especially since the fix to this must be extremely simple to implement.
Imagine using Cloud's level 4 limit break in Final Fantasy 7 and having all the damage appear at the start of it instantly, as opposed to having 9999 show up on each strike. You would end up looking at him go berserk without any actual real impact. I don't think I need to explain to you why they didn't go with that design 23 years ago when they made FF7. That's what this feels like.

Thank you for reading and understanding.

[Saix027]

Damage numbers as immersion? Deactivate them, done. I see no issue with such since that is sepreated from the visuals and gameplay.
Are you serious here or are you trolling? There are more urgent issues then splitting some numbers to fit the animation wow.
Like reducing effects overall that are not affected by options, i got a freind with epilepsy, so far she could enjoy the game but latest dungeons and raids have effects she can't turn off, background effects mostly.
Thos should have priority rather then some fancy numbers to compare to make your ego feel good for some reason.

[Darkstride]

This COMPLETELY ruins immersion for me and for many others also.

I've genuinely never heard or seen this complaint prior to right now.

[Eliadil]

The reason it's done is that a single high potency attack scales way better with crit that two attacks at half potency, due to internal calculations and stuff, and it also makes snapshotting buff way easier if it register only one hit, but I understand the feeling.

[Kabooa]

The reason it's done is that a single high potency attack scales way better with crit that two attacks at half potency, due to internal calculations and stuff, and it also makes snapshotting buff way easier if it register only one hit, but I understand the feeling.

The display of a number is separate from the calculation.

[Celz88]

If you're going to tell others they are being hostile, you may want to refrain from doing so yourself. Your reply ventures into rant territory and people are far less likely to take you seriously if you just sling insults and try to boast as if you are superior.

Although, I suppose that's commonplace on the forums.

Regarding your complaint, I do see where you're coming from and it probably would be an easy fix. I suspect the reason it is because it reflects the tooltip damage accurately (also could be fixed if needed), and because of animation clipping. If, for instance, you had an attack that visually hits 3 times, then the damage numbers would be spread out over a short period rather than instantly when the actual attack's damage is applied. If you were to immediately use another ability and clip the animation (which is common) what would then happen with your damage numbers? Do you miss the last attack because the animation clipped? I think the way it's currently functioning is merely for the sake of simplicity.

Why is it still this way? Frankly, I'd say that it's because it's how the game was designed and most players don't have a problem with it. It's the way damage has always been applied. Apparently, not having a major issue with it means we are all "neanderthals". So be it.

I treat people the way they treat me. But you are right. It's a personality quirk. Like Trump, I believe in an eye for an eye (up to a point). If someone ridicules me for no reason I will not sit there and take it. I was obviously referring to people who ridicule others for something they don't perceive (like the clown above). But having said that, you are either a casual or indeed a neanderthal (in the context of game design) IF, for example, a Dragoon does a high jump ability, and the damage goes off on the way up instead of the way down, and you see nothing wrong with that. It is such basic knowledge of game design that I am shocked I have to sit here to explain this. All they would have to do is delay the damage numbers for rogue and Samurai (and whatever other class has their damage appear before their animation is done) so that it matches the last hit. That's it. No coding needed. It's simply a delay code string which can be fixed in 2 seconds.

[Celz88]

I've genuinely never heard or seen this complaint prior to right now.

Well, you learn something new every day. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

[Darkstride]

I treat people the way they treat me. But you are right. It's a personality quirk. Like Trump, I believe in an eye for an eye (up to a point). If someone ridicules me for no reason I will not sit there and take it. I was obviously referring to people who ridicule others for something they don't perceive (like the clown above). But having said that, you are indeed a neanderthal IF, for example, a Dragoon does a high jump ability, and the damage goes off on the way up instead of the way down, and you see nothing wrong with that. It is such basic knowledge of game design that I am shocked I have to sit here to explain this. All they would have to do is delay the damage numbers for rogue and Samurai (and whatever other class has their damage appear before their animation is done) so that it matches the last hit. That's it. No coding needed. It's simply a delay code string which can be fixed in 2 seconds.

It would appear that you're not looking for any sort of discussion or open to seeing any other aspects. You've already decided that you're right and if anyone had a differing view then they have no meaningful degree of intelligence.

Best of luck finding all of the other enlightened ones to join your crusade.

In all seriousness though, adjusting damage numbers to reflect every individual hit of a multihit animation is potentially not that simple. Flashy, lengthy attack animations are cute but they aren't necessarily practical when calculating DPS on a global cooldown. If your damage application follows your animation and you clip your animation, that has now created a different and worse scenario. The tradeoff is that the damage is applied upfront to avoid this issue. But by all means let's focus on a dramatic Dragoon example and continue to talk down to people.

I'll take my leave from this thread since it's probably going nowhere. Hopefully you're able to have a constructive conversation and get whatever it is you're looking for.

[Celz88]

It would appear that you're not looking for any sort of discussion or open to seeing any other aspects. You've already decided that you're right and if anyone had a differing view then they have no meaningful degree of intelligence.

Best of luck finding all of the other enlightened ones to join your crusade.

In all seriousness though, adjusting damage numbers to reflect every individual hit of a multihit animation is potentially not that simple. Flashy, lengthy attack animations are cute but they aren't necessarily practical when calculating DPS on a global cooldown. If your damage application follows your animation and you clip your animation, that has now created a different and worse scenario. The tradeoff is that the damage is applied upfront to avoid this issue. But by all means let's focus on a dramatic Dragoon example and continue to talk down to people.

I'll take my leave from this thread since it's probably going nowhere. Hopefully you're able to have a constructive conversation and get whatever it is you're looking for.

Well it certainly won't happen with individuals like you. And yeah, why would I pretend I'm wrong when I know I'm right? Every other MMO I've ever played got basic design down where the damage appears when it makes sense. And guess what. There is a reason for that. Shocking right? I know. But hey, it's you and your game who are losing customers/playerbase/longevity of the game because the devs can't be bothered since the community seemingly consists of predominantly casuals and people who don't really give a shit about how gameplay feels, which is the most important aspect of an MMO. So yeah, joke's on me bud. You act as if you're punishing me by not acknowledging these things but you're just hurting the game. You're not doing me a favor by agreeing with me. You're doing the game a favor, so what I say is actually extremely irrelevant. I'm just bringing this issue to light.

A lot of people don't even realize the importance of this and they get bored without really understanding why. But having gameplay that feels impactful, satisfying and responsive is extremely important. That's just a fact. There is nothing to challenge here. Having damage show up early like that makes it feel hollow and not meaty. An objectively bad thing.

[Akiudo]

just about anything you said

to say something on topic: while it would be nice, i will give you that, just saying "its easy to do so do it" is incredibly short sighted. i'm not even gonna argue if it should be easy or hard to do it, the fact of the matter is WE DON'T KNOW. it probably should not be hard to do, but considering all the little problems the 1.0 code brought with it, and how "fixing small stuff" often takes ages because its less "coding a new line or two" and more "fixing a broken mess that pretends to be game code" the simple fact remains that we don't know what underlying issues there may or may not be, but acting like your issue is the one priority issue the game has is a special kind of entitled.




aside from that, let me just say this.

Thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

i sometimes feel like i'm too confrontational, that i should really just "let go" if i can't find common ground with someone, sometimes i truly and honestly feel like i am concending to people that don't deserve it, but you ? you've shown me the light, reading your endless rambling, your wording and your complete inability to stay civil for but a single page of your own thread ? reading through this thread made me realize just how much worse i or many others could be, so thank you, truly and heartfelt.