Do you think henchmen/mooks who recognize the WoL but attack anyway are silly?

[MrThinker]

lTo be pedantic, the Hades cut scene doesn't actually show anyone else. It's very heavily implied that adventurers will pop out of those beams of light, but it isn't actually shown until the little cut scene inside the instance, and cut scenes inside group instances presumably don't count for whatever reason, because those always show other adventurers.

Also I have seen people question that cut scene and say it doesn't count. The ease with which he summons your back-up doesn't mesh especially well with the struggle he had to get you across in the first place, and the difficulty he is having in sending everyone back.

It may not show the adventurers turning up until the instance, but since those see pillars of light are gonna be used in 5.3, the temporary summon is indeed canon, regardless of what people think.

[Cilia]

On the subject of solo vs. party, honestly, I feel it's contextual. Depending on the situation, it makes sense to come prepared with a party or not. If you go in with a plan, it's liable you had a group with you; a lot of content is made this way. However, some of it... is just done on the fly as a reaction to unexpected developments, like Ifrit and Susano. If you're ever given time to prepare in the narrative, it's liable you did it with a party; otherwise it was probably solo.

Note that this does mean most trials were undertaken with a party. The only standouts would be Ifrit (jailed and held captive by amalj'aa before they tried to feed you to him), the Chrysalis (rapidly closing interdimensional gate prolly not gonna give you time to go get seven friends), Singularity Reactor (you just breached the barrier to Azys Lla and stampeded your way to the central controls trying to stop the Ascians and Thordan), Pool of Tribute (you're on a clandestine mission to the other side of the world in a very hard to reach place; the likelihood of having seven nearby friends to help you out is very low, as Alisae points out), Emanation (maybe), and Castrum Fluminis (she's right there; you do NOT have the time to go get a party and she WILL kill you if you try it!).

Every other time you go in with at least a semblance of a plan, and Shadowbringers sidesteps the issue entirely via the Trust system.

[Jandor]

and Castrum Fluminis (she's right there; you do NOT have the time to go get a party and she WILL kill you if you try it!).

Interestingly enough, Fluminis is one of the few pieces of group content that is explicitly spelled out in game as something that you definitely tackled alone.

Presumably to further drive home the point that she's meant to be rather on the weak side for a primal.

[Rosenstrauch]

Every other time you go in with at least a semblance of a plan, and Shadowbringers sidesteps the issue entirely via the Trust system.

For the dungeons, yeah. For Trials, not quite. The pressure to get into Lyhe Ghiah and do battle with Titania is fairly high once you hit that point, with the Scions having to run interference just to keep Ran'jit and the Eulmoran army from getting in your way. And the same holds true for the Crown of the Immaculate—you definitely went up Mt. Gulg with the Scions, and all of them were forced to hold the line so you could take your shot at Vauthry. In both cases, there really isn't any time to sit around waiting for 7 more blokes to show up. Hades is the exception, but only because there's an explicit action that brings in more people to fight alongside you.

[Crushnight]

You have to take the whole were we with a group of people or not as it is stated(also new lore overwrites old lore).

Some stuff we did solo;
-Beat up Nabriales, Lahabrea and Igyorymn
-Killed Thordan and the Heavensward
-Slew Nidhogg's shade
-Killed Tsyukiyomi
-Beat up Zenos in Ala Mhigo

Some stuff we did as a group;
-Killed Livia and entered Prae getting to at least Ultima Weapon with party where it becomes hazy
- Entered Ala Mhigo (I have to assume scientist guy kills other 3 members with his soul mechanic at this point)
-Slew Voidsent in Shisui
-Void Ark/Mhach saga


If they make joke about adventurer companions, then high chance your doing it solo, if serious about adventurer companions, then high chance that you had help. They are a lot more joking about help from SB onwards.

[Rannie]

The encyclopedia eorzea also will state if we were alone or not

Unless they like to pull the tongue in cheek with that also. Page 49 of book two states we had the foresight to bring echo blessed companions with us for Susanoo

[Gula]

The encyclopedia eorzea also will state if we were alone or not

Unless they like to pull the tongue in cheek with that also. Page 49 of book two states we had the foresight to bring echo blessed companions with us for Susanoo

And if I recall correctly, the raids too.

[Enkidoh]

Note that this does mean most trials were undertaken with a party. The only standouts would be Ifrit (jailed and held captive by amalj'aa before they tried to feed you to him),

Ifrit gets a pass though as the development team already thought of a way out of that - in the cell another prisioner states he managed to dig a small tunnel to an underground waterway that lead back out into Thanalan, and that one person sneaking out wouldn't attact attention, but if they all tried, the amal'jaa guards would come down on you all rapidly before you could do anything, so he basically pressured you into escaping only so that you could mount a rescue party. Speaking to a Immortal Flames npc in Camp Drybone allows you to therefore return back to the prison cell theoretically with reinforcements, and thus face down Ifrit with a full party (although it's a big stretch that your party all happened to be awoken to the Echo and thus immune to his little tempering stunt).

Either way, the game basically explained that Ifirit was probably fought with a party and not 'solo', regardless of what the cutscene showed.

[Jandor]

and thus face down Ifrit with a full party (although it's a big stretch that your party all happened to be awoken to the Echo and thus immune to his little tempering stunt).

Maybe they weren't all immune, that might be why you do the fight with a light party

[Alleo]

Surely the English version is the canon version for the English language lore forum? We can't reasonably be expected to discuss versions we can't understand.

We're not being celebrated by the people half the time, the normal response we get when we turn up is 'who the hell are you? kill 5 wolves for me and then I might hear you out.'

They are? The Scions mention them, we were just talking about Lyse mentioning them.

Just because this is the english forum does not suddenly take away any other language and since the english translation does have the tendency to change stuff to make it more suprising (Middys dialogue in english sounds like he is not that good of a guy) should make it necessary to look at other languages. And if its the only language that this happens then yes I question if its canon.

Also lets not forget that we have an english lore book . And most of the battles there are described at us going at it alone. A lot of battles would not make sense with other anyway, especially stuff like Azys Lla.

We might not always be celebrated but we are a hero to the people of Eorzea and Doma. We get praised and looked up by the leaders, some of our enemies have a huge respect for us too. Why would that soley be with us if we always have other with us? Also take Ifrit. Thancred afterwards askes us (and only us) if we are alright. Why would he do that if three other people are with us? At that time we are barely known and should not stand out. Look at Ardberts group. Its not only Ardbert people talk about. The whole group is known.

The scion only mention them in tongue in cheek dialogue where even Alisaie afterwards plays it of as a joke. Otherwise they never do...how does it make sense that there are at least 7 other echo blessed awesome warriors and yet the only one the run to is us? Why are we thrown into each problem if there are a bunch of other strong people to throw at it too? I mean its not like we would always need to be there right? And look at the story. As soon as the summoner NPCs and Arenvald (+Fordola) are there to kill primals they are used for that. So the scions are able to use other people for those but seemingly not when its our friends?

Also about the real life examples: I mean do we really compare normal humans to fantasy beings that can bring down meteors? Lalafells that can wear axes twice their size? And if we compare then its still not realistic because we still are not an army either, even if we had 7 other people with us.

My point with ancient being is not if the others know that but that we are probably way more powerful than the average person just by having that soul. Heck its canon that we can do many jobs and we are masters in each one of them, surpassing even those that trained years for that. As a summoner you can basically summon a mini bahamut and we take out lesser ascians as if they are insects.

I mean we can turn it around and say that if people want to believe that our character is somehow so weak that they need other people with them for all fights (and instead of defeating people like Zenos in a fair one-vs-one we kind of take him on with three and then later 7 people..) then thats fine. But for me a lot of the fights (especially the primal ones but also some other trials and dungeon dont make sense at all.
Are you telling me that we cheated in the trial for the AuRa and instead of it being a test of strenght for us alone we just brought our awesome other people with us? Or what about Hraesvelgrs test? Alphinaud and Aymeric are doing it all alone and yet we can just walz in there with our friends? And afterwards leave them behind because we three are the only ones leaving.

Honestly only the 50er MSQ story dungeon and Hades makes sense with people, anything else just is not believeable..especially if those people disappear into thin air afterwards instead of helping us in a horrible situation..also they are always missing when we do solo instances but as soon as that turns into a dungeon they are there?

Yes the game establishes that adventurers exist and they establish that alot of them die (see Eddas group) or are not that strong. Heck when we needed people to help us with the steps of faith most of the NPCs turned us down out of fear.

You are a mortal that is at the top of every single job you take (be it gatherer, crafter or fighter). You defeat your masters that had years to train with this job. You are also able to take out quite the enemies while doing those job quests. You are able to defeat people like Ranjit solo. The liberation of nations was mostly done on our shoulders because we take out the big bads but lets not forget that the npc armies fought too. Ala Mhigo is a great dungeon for that because they show you that a lot of the enemies are fought by our allies. The same with a lot of other battle fields. Isghards war was also partly done by you but also because of the will of both sides to try out peace. Where are all those friends of ours when it gets down to the talking? Are they just chilling out there in the cold because they just like to smash? Why are we not talking about our next steps with them if they are so vital for our success? Why are they not mentioned by name? I doubt we would get new adventurers every single time..so they should be friends or comrades...but we never ever talk about them..

Yes Final Fantasy games had parties..parties of people with names and backstory. Parties with people that interact with each other and not just suddenly disappear. Its not Lightning going through the story all alone while the rest just pops up when its time to fight. No these parties are here and interact. None of this is happening for these so called adventurer friends..the FF party is bascially the scions themselves. Just that they did not follow us into a lot of battles in the past which they now do. So for me the only canon parties are the one where you can choose to take the scions into the fight and the Hades one because it makes sense.


--------

Anyways even if we somehow have other people it does not make sense that people who dont have a reason to fight us still do it. If you are a normal fighter you normally dont just attack a karate master just because he is alone..because that one should still be way out of your league.

The only good reason is the one where you lose your life anyway. Be killed if you are not attacking because of treason or die fighting us .