The tawdry female bosses are tiresome, and we could do with more male fanservice.

[craybest]

Bisexuals, lesbians.

I even know a lot of straight women who like boobs.


And honestly it's not only about sex. It's about making your character look how you want.

So while sure, the men got shorted, it's not like OMG THE STRAIGHT MALE GAZE WINS OVER ALL.

If there's any complaint there it's that male customization didn't get a muscle slider, not that it's all about the sex.

i said "marketed towards" not that no one else is allowe to like it. it's not explicitely marketed towards lesbians or bisexual women. it's marketed specifically towards straight makes, like it's been done for decades.
no one is against sexualization in general, it's when it's done only towards one sideor demographic that it starts looking wrong. FFXIV isn't the worst at this. in fact it's one of the few MMOs where you can have your male character in actual skimpy clothes, and it's got a lot of praise for that. But for bosses, it's usually just sexy girls for some reason.

[Krotoan]

i said "marketed towards" not that no one else is allowe to like it. it's not explicitely marketed towards lesbians or bisexual women. it's marketed specifically towards straight makes, like it's been done for decades.
no one is against sexualization in general, it's when it's done only towards one sideor demographic that it starts looking wrong. FFXIV isn't the worst at this. in fact it's one of the few MMOs where you can have your male character in actual skimpy clothes, and it's got a lot of praise for that. But for bosses, it's usually just sexy girls for some reason.

The market then is people who appreciate conventionally attractive female bodies which again.. isn't always straight males. I will agree it is weighted towards the typical gamer demographic, but do you blame them? That is where the money is. While being pioneering is right and admirable.. it doesn't make a whole lot of money if it offends the people out there who usually buy the stuff.

[Doozer]

While being pioneering is right and admirable.. it doesn't make a whole lot of money if it offends the people out there who usually buy the stuff.

Ah, so as soon as something offends the fragile straight men, then it's an issue.

[Krotoan]

Ah, so as soon as something offends the fragile straight men, then it's an issue.

If you're an investor who doesn't like an uncertainly profitable product.. Yeah?
Social progress isn't something they care about.

I'm not convinced that a lot of straight men are even bothered by such things these days - I'd wager many would be happy to see more tasteful and conventionally attractive fan service aimed at male characters.

honestly wouldn't know.. the current new gen of gamers aren't a demographic I interact with on that level a lot. .. Ya'll watching the tiktoks and doing the streamies.. get off my lawn.

[Theodric]

If you're an investor who doesn't like an uncertainly profitable product.. Yeah?
Social progress isn't something they care about.

Japan doesn't have a track record of shying away from fan service. It's extremely popular over there, as evidenced by many JRPG's having a whole bunch of fan service for both male and female characters. FFXIV is a strange exception, which suggests that any issues are due to the development team itself - because other titles in the franchise do not suffer from the same limitations and do not shy away from, say, displaying a bare chested male character with his nipples intact.

[Krotoan]

Japan doesn't have a track record of shying away from fan service. It's extremely popular over there, as evidenced by many JRPG's having a whole bunch of fan service for both male and female characters. FFXIV is a strange exception, which suggests that any issues are due to the development team itself - because other titles in the franchise do not suffer from the same limitations and do not shy away from, say, displaying a bare chested male character with his nipples intact.

Could be the market it's trying to get into in western countries? Honestly there are many decisions that don't particularly make sense unless there's some sort of strange frame of mind making decisions at the top. I'm just saying a lot of times things gotta make it past someone who knows where the money is to be grabbed and who they'd like to make sure wants the product.

[linayar]

Honestly there are many decisions that don't particularly make sense unless there's some sort of strange frame of mind making decisions at the top.

Maybe, but lack of male nipples aside, the choice in boss clothing is not necessarily one of those decisions.

[linayar]

But for bosses, it's usually just sexy girls for some reason.

It could just be as simple a reason as developer preference. As you've said, male characters can wear skimpy clothes if the players want to represent them that way. Bosses, on the other hand, are not player characters and are up to the developers.

Ah, so as soon as something offends the fragile straight men, then it's an issue.

Offense is the wrong word to use as it's not an issue. The developers made a stylistic choice according to their own preference (and perhaps others' as well) and it's not an issue for them and are not meant as an offense other than for people who can't help but take offense at partial nudity.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

i said "marketed towards" not that no one else is allowe to like it. it's not explicitely marketed towards lesbians or bisexual women. it's marketed specifically towards straight makes, like it's been done for decades.

Must be why this company has been making shirtless pretty boys the norm for all that time. 'Sure, it appeals to others, but I have a bone to pick with straight men' as if a form of entertainment trying to entertain its main audience while also showing a long history of providing entertainment for smaller parts of the audience too is a bad thing.

'Like its been done for decades'- Tidus, shirtless handsome man with a nice face. Vaan, shirtless handsome man with a nice face. Kuja clearly isn't aimed at straight males. Locke, Zidane, Auron- highly charismatic and charming. FFXV's entire cast- overly handsome men that accompany you the entire game and get into a lot of scenarios and situations that are clearly not aimed at 'straight males'. Their willingness to make their main FF title game a bishounen, something that's aimed solely at appealing to people that are into men, kinda shows they're perfectly fine with giving things to everyone.

Also- let's talk customization. As a straight female, my biggest issue with the customizer isn't male customization, it's a lack of more sliders for my own character (butt, thighs, waist, arms, etc..), who's an extension of myself in game. If certain things are lacking specifically with male customization, sure that does limit my eye candy but it's going to effect me less than a limit to my character's customization. I think if anyone's going to be most annoyed at not having certain male customization it's going to be players who play male characters, which is predominantly straight males. Limiting the options of straight males using the game as an extension of themselves is catering to straight males... how?

It really feels like 'straight males' is being used as an argument in itself, that people think if they can bring that up it's an auto win and thus the offending party has to change their ways.

[Kolsykol]

Must be why this company has been making shirtless pretty boys the norm for all that time. 'Sure, it appeals to others, but I have a bone to pick with straight men' as if a form of entertainment trying to entertain its main audience while also showing a long history of providing entertainment for smaller parts of the audience too is a bad thing.

'Like its been done for decades'- Tidus, shirtless handsome man with a nice face. Vaan, shirtless handsome man with a nice face. Kuja clearly isn't aimed at straight males. Locke, Zidane, Auron- highly charismatic and charming. FFXV's entire cast- overly handsome men that accompany you the entire game and get into a lot of scenarios and situations that are clearly not aimed at 'straight males'. Their willingness to make their main FF title game a bishounen, something that's aimed solely at appealing to people that are into men, kinda shows they're perfectly fine with giving things to everyone.

Also- let's talk customization. As a straight female, my biggest issue with the customizer isn't male customization, it's a lack of more sliders for my own character (butt, thighs, waist, arms, etc..), who's an extension of myself in game. If certain things are lacking specifically with male customization, sure that does limit my eye candy but it's going to effect me less than a limit to my character's customization. I think if anyone's going to be most annoyed at not having certain male customization it's going to be players who play male characters, which is predominantly straight males. Limiting the options of straight males using the game as an extension of themselves is catering to straight males... how?

It really feels like 'straight males' is being used as an argument in itself, that people think if they can bring that up it's an auto win and thus the offending party has to change their ways.

I think that people are kinda reading things into it when they say that a game is '' marketed towards straight males '' or whatever, I can't begin to count how many times I've seen people say that about a female character and then you look up the creator and it's a woman and it's consistent with the rest of her art.

I think that people just have an idea in their heads about what is '' for men '' and when they see that they assume that it was directed at men.
I really don't even think that most developers think that way, I think that they just worry more about creating something that they enjoy I don't think that most of them ever sit down and go '' who is our game for, men okay ''. That's more something that certain observers do.


I find the notion that FF does it to be especially absurd too, the FF series on a whole oozes femininity and is very atypical.
Like even with cases as Bayonetta people make that argument and say that the game was still '' for men '' but as far as I understand tho the game director went to very great lengths to make sure that the game had a feminine influence in every single aspect. He deliberately hired women and essentially gave them free reign ( within reason ofc ) precisely because he wanted that to be felt.
But people just see an attractive woman being sexual and they go '' this must've been intended for men '', they basically project their views unto other people.

Even in FFXIV I honestly see more men complain about characters like Gaia and being rude about her talking about how she has had botox injections ( it's just lipstick lol ) etc, while I see more women appreciate her in a fashion sense.
Just in general I honestly see way more men upset about this kind of content while women and the LGBT community is more accepting of it.
But it is ofc subjective and the truth is that your tastes aren't dependent on your gender or sexuality.
Even when it comes to gay and bi men and women some of them are more attracted to femininity while others are more attracted to masculinity ( often times they complement each other too ).
It's the same with straight men and women, there is no single preference.
I see a ton of straight men praise certain female characters and saying that they're sexy because they're more masculine.
A female character being more masculine or not conventionally attractive doesn't make them not sexualized or not sexual.


I think that the drama that went around in the games industry years ago because of certain individuals about sexualized content can sorta be felt today still in how it's talked about and the lens in which people perceive it.
People still talk about it in the most simplistic way ever and make these sweeping generalizations about what men and women like or don't like.

I think that a lot of people find it a bit embarrassing to talk about in general too or they know how negatively people will react to it so they just stay silent.
I try to stay away from it because I know how immature people are about it and it gives me a headache...
I mean on most forums you can make these extreme allegations against people who like sexualized content, and if you simply state that you enjoy it you'll get dogpiled by people trying their hardest to humiliate you for it. Especially if you're a man, then people will try and attack your masculinity.
Same if you're a guy who likes more feminine content. So it often becomes a circlejerk because people are afraid to discuss and admit to enjoying certain things.
Even with women other women will shame you for enjoying it and label you an enemy.

And yeah... I dunno why people always gotta talk about this in such a negative way about the female characters but then act like they want more male fanservice.
Like one second they call women sluts etc and talk about them in a really negative way, but then the next second they're all like '' oh yeah and more sexy men please ''.
Wtf?
If it's supposedly so bad with female characters, then why would it be a good thing with male characters? Especially when they spend 99% of their time complaining about the female characters and just bring it up to deflect criticism for what they're doing.

Edit: I think that a lot of men also tend to shit on this kind of content to try and prove that they're an '' ally '' or make themselves look good.
I know of a woman who worked at a very prominent movie studio and she quit due to repeated sexual harassment from her boss and another man at the office.
One of the least bad things her boss would do is walk up to her at the office and start ranting about how disgusting he thought that her figurines were and then go on and talk about his own '' realistic '' sexual preferences. There's A LOT of men like that in gaming media too, I see so much of it.
It's like they're trying to prove to women how great they are or something.