The tawdry female bosses are tiresome, and we could do with more male fanservice.

[Melichoir]

Part of the issue is having eyecandy ONLY for straight men.

I guess lesbians dont exist. Or Bi men/women.

But again, being flippant aside, the solution is simply more eye candy for everyone. Men, women, whatever. Who cares. Lets roll with it.

[VirusOnline]

Im incredibly inclined to completely ignore any further points simply because Im personally tired of the "Well, they dont do it cause males so insecure about homosexuality." It's a tired, age old argument that uses tropes against male players to explain design differences. It is no different than dismissing female players as 'posers' - a generalization used to discredit a portion of the player base based on sex. This concept is bandied about like were still living like 30-40 years ago where its like "Dude, Bro, That guy is totally gay! He must be a -insert slur here-! Now lets go have tons of hotness with females cause were so manly".

Hell that has becoming the running joke - the hyper masculine jock is actually secretly gay and ashamed of themselves.

Most guys dont give an 'f' anymore. Some do, sure and that is unfortunate to say it lightly, but most dont. And if youve been around the internet enough (which I would guess is a yes), you shouldve quickly learned that when trashier people want to really get under your skin, the first thing theyll do is look for something that you take on a personal level and use it against you.

If I could, I'd like to quote this in response from an article on Gamasutra which was quotes in our year 2011.

Because there is a large presence of the heterosexual man’s identity in the development process and in gaming’s audience, the perceived “neutral” vision of game design takes on the influence of the socially appropriate interests specific to straight men. The lack of men’s sexualization is a product of the average straight guy’s impulse to avoid appearing or feeling gay. Men have a fig leaf of sorts when it comes to camera work and character design, while women get more attention and exposure. What sexual bits we do see are “safe” for heterosexual men to view without feeling like they’re watching something “gay,” such as muscular arms or exposed torsos. A common counter-argument concerns the issue of men’s impossible body image in games, which is definitely important, but mostly a different discussion to tackle. The aesthetic of muscles denote strength, agency, and power for the assumed male player to relate to, while emphasis on T&A when viewing women only serves as fan-service. Both rely on problematic ideals, but there is still a power relation present in theis representation that favors men.

Bringing in personal experience as well, and I'm only in my 20s and perhaps being asian has a large part to do with it as well, the perception of how we see ourselves reflected in games can be one that exists on a subconscious plane. This entire idea is prevalent in some cultures and societies today. To say that this mode of thinking is outdated attempts to downplay the experience that people like me might have gone through despite ending up to believe against such oudated concepts. But to deny this belief doesn't exist or is not in the minds of "most" men is a bit folly to say it exists only 30-40 years ago. We are not all progressive people and or countries. I'd like to challenge the "most" men concept especially when it comes to marketing a game.

What I will take umbrage with is people who are like "To many of these female bosses are too scantily clad" but turn around and be like "We need more guy candy". That nonsense bothers me to no end. You want guy candy then you need to be fine with the ladies too, and vice versa. It's either we give it to everyone and say a job well done, or we do it for no one.

Since the beginning of this thread's page, people have taken serious offence to the shallow title as if it's an attack on women. It's a criticism to SE's design team.
It's valid criticism. You can complain that the female bosses are too scantily clad when men are not given the same treatment. It's a fair view on SE's design, but then that will point back to the quote I put earlier. No one here is taking offence to primarily sexy female bosses. The offence is at the lack of the counterpart.

[Hysterior]

The offence is at the lack of the counterpart.

Which is pretty flagrant as soon as you even open the character creation
Boob size: No problem, we have a slider. Make them huge.
Man parts: Error 404

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Which is pretty flagrant as soon as you even open the character creation
Boob size: No problem, we have a slider. Make them huge.
Man parts: Error 404

In a social area, like a mall for example- I can tell at a glance the size of someone's breasts or butt. Yet to be able to figure out someone's junk though at a glance.

Even if FFXIV were to be devoid of sexualization, you'd still know the size of everyone's butts and breasts- and that's the case for all games. Even very family friendly ones there's a decision on what size to make everyone's butts and breasts because it's unavoidable that you will notice their size unless everyone's in robes, and in fairness they should make everything that we can see customizable.

I'm not sure if you're seriously comparing breasts to man's junk- as is men can show off their chests without any clothing at all, so if you really want to get into counterparts compare men and women's chests, and the bareness of one.

And before you say 'but it is not the same' remember what you just did.

[craybest]

In a social area, like a mall for example- I can tell at a glance the size of someone's breasts or butt. Yet to be able to figure out someone's junk though at a glance.

Even if FFXIV were to be devoid of sexualization, you'd still know the size of everyone's butts and breasts- and that's the case for all games. Even very family friendly ones there's a decision on what size to make everyone's butts and breasts because it's unavoidable that you will notice their size unless everyone's in robes, and in fairness they should make everything that we can see customizable.

I'm not sure if you're seriously comparing breasts to man's junk- as is men can show off their chests without any clothing at all, so if you really want to get into counterparts compare men and women's chests, and the bareness of one.

And before you say 'but it is not the same' remember what you just did.

where's the male pec size slider then? or the unisex butt slider? as long as it's just for boobs, it's clearly marketed towards straight males only.

[Krotoan]

where's the male pec size slider then? or the unisex butt slider? as long as it's just for boobs, it's clearly marketed towards straight males only.

Bisexuals, lesbians.

I even know a lot of straight women who like boobs.


And honestly it's not only about sex. It's about making your character look how you want.

So while sure, the men got shorted, it's not like OMG THE STRAIGHT MALE GAZE WINS OVER ALL.

If there's any complaint there it's that male customization didn't get a muscle slider, not that it's all about the sex.

[Razard]

But the best semi naked male body is already in the game.





/thread

[craybest]

Bisexuals, lesbians.

I even know a lot of straight women who like boobs.


And honestly it's not only about sex. It's about making your character look how you want.

So while sure, the men got shorted, it's not like OMG THE STRAIGHT MALE GAZE WINS OVER ALL.

If there's any complaint there it's that male customization didn't get a muscle slider, not that it's all about the sex.

i said "marketed towards" not that no one else is allowe to like it. it's not explicitely marketed towards lesbians or bisexual women. it's marketed specifically towards straight makes, like it's been done for decades.
no one is against sexualization in general, it's when it's done only towards one sideor demographic that it starts looking wrong. FFXIV isn't the worst at this. in fact it's one of the few MMOs where you can have your male character in actual skimpy clothes, and it's got a lot of praise for that. But for bosses, it's usually just sexy girls for some reason.

[Krotoan]

i said "marketed towards" not that no one else is allowe to like it. it's not explicitely marketed towards lesbians or bisexual women. it's marketed specifically towards straight makes, like it's been done for decades.
no one is against sexualization in general, it's when it's done only towards one sideor demographic that it starts looking wrong. FFXIV isn't the worst at this. in fact it's one of the few MMOs where you can have your male character in actual skimpy clothes, and it's got a lot of praise for that. But for bosses, it's usually just sexy girls for some reason.

The market then is people who appreciate conventionally attractive female bodies which again.. isn't always straight males. I will agree it is weighted towards the typical gamer demographic, but do you blame them? That is where the money is. While being pioneering is right and admirable.. it doesn't make a whole lot of money if it offends the people out there who usually buy the stuff.

[Doozer]

While being pioneering is right and admirable.. it doesn't make a whole lot of money if it offends the people out there who usually buy the stuff.

Ah, so as soon as something offends the fragile straight men, then it's an issue.