The tawdry female bosses are tiresome, and we could do with more male fanservice.

[Lauront]

Seconded! He's a pretty great example.

[Melichoir]

snips

Dont think it's being suggested that they cant have charisma, but charisma is something associated with story and background. A lot of bosses are not going to have this by virtue of them being, well, just a boss. Sophia, as an example, isnt going to really have a ton of time to be charismatic. What dialogue she has is going to be flavor for the encounter to give us a broad idea of what she is. True charisma, like that of Emet Selch or other bosses, takes time to develop.

Which gets back to the primary point - What is being asked for. More or less Male Eye Candy. You get some Charisma in on that, all the better. If it has to be one or the other, though, people are arguing for more skin and sexiness.

[Nestama]

The last boss of Anamnesis Anyder was a monstrous female. In fact, when that boss was released, I didn't see anyone on this forum give an commendations for that. But since this upcoming boss can be considered "attractive," there's an outcry? btw In fact, Garuda is VERY monstrous, compared to Shiva and Lakshmi. People only focus on her breasts, but her feathery form, arms, and legs is NOT attractive. I'm not even sure why this is a debate. There were more than enough "manly" boss encounters in this game; Byakko, Seiryu, and Sephirot to name a few. Even Titan and Ifrit were re-imagined to be that way. Some people just cannot be happy, even if SE gives them what they asked for, and will resort to outrage by default

To me, it's because she has a human face and body. Heck, her feathers are even designed in such a way that it looks like more like clothing. I do somewhat give her a pass because SE were clearly using her FFXI design as a reference, but... honestly, I'd like her way more if she were actually a bird (imagine if her design was similar to the Rito from Breath of the Wild. Way better, imo). She's summoned by the Ixal! You'd think they'd go for a more monster bird look.

They stepped in the right direction with the Sahagin Queen final boss. I'd like to see more Beastman and monster ladies (who are not 50-95% human in design).

[AngelCheese77]

So many of them are so obscene I'm hesitant to post them here, but you can have a look - https://twitter.com/meteorswimmer/st...50690592116736

Meanwhile, the Godberts and Sephirots are few and rarely have a nice face or a robust view.

I had to look up what this word meant .. lol. showy but cheap and of poor quality. Hm.

Do you mean they have cheap backstories? Or ... skills? I'm not sure what you are getting at. I've never been disappointed with any of the female or male character models in this game yet. Maybe you see things different or something i'm not.

[Kolsykol]

The thing that bothers me about the OP and conversations about this is in general is that I often end up feeling like people aren't listening to what others are saying or are being disingenuous about their own intent.
I am not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread, I just mean in general.
The way that the OP is phrased comes across more like it cares more about taking jabs at the female characters and bosses moreso than it's actually asking for equity, and it's also very insulting and judgey.
The same thing goes for people on Twitter, when people say that '' people just want equity '' and I actually look at what's being said it doesn't seem like it to me.
On the one hand female characters in skimpy outfits are being called '' tawdry and obscene '' but in the next second people want male characters in skimpy outfits?
It sorta comes across to me like people who disrespect women who do sex work but then indulge in it themselves, like clearly you don't respect women like that and do judge them but you're going to engage with their content?
I'd say that's pretty objectifying tbh.

There's a Youtuber I know of who breaks down and critiques character designs in League of Legends and it's a huge problem that I have with his channel too, he often phrases things in a way like '' she has her tits out '' ( in a really negative way ) or calls characters '' Mcbigtits '' etc.
And he very specifically only does this with female characters.
Like does it actually have to be explained why that's bad? I am not saying that it's literally the same equivelant as this, but in essence it's the same thing as calling a woman '' fatso '' and the implications of it is basically '' cover up you *slur* ''.
Would people doing this be okay with people calling women names if they're larger or are muscular etc? I really doubt that, and with some people I know for a fact that they wouldn't.
So why is it okay here?
I mean I'd argue against that conventionally attractive women are '' privileged '' considering how that '' privilege '' often goes hand in hand with unwanted attention and judgemental attitudes, but even if that was true.
Just because it's not '' as bad '' doesn't mean that it isn't still bad or make it okay...
I also think that people tend to assume that a monster is male by default, but the truth is that often times we simply don't know and when it's female then people expect proof of it but not with male monsters.

I can totally respect people for wanting more male fanservice and just wanting more optinos all-around, but at the same time I have a hard time believing that when someone spends 99-100% of the time just complaining about options that they don't like.
I have to question whether it's really true at that point and it also makes it hard for me to side with you even if I agree with that sentiment...
I've noticed this with people giving characters that aren't conventionally attractive praise too, often times a lot of people combine it with straight up insults or indirect insults against characters and women that are.
Why is that necessary? And it just changes things from showing support to certain characters and women to being a jerk.
But for some reason that's just accepted and tolerated behaviour.

Last thing I'll say too is that I don't like how people generalize power fantasies and what is cool or sexy too much either and people trying to be the arbiter of this or read intent into the artists.
A lot of people just assert things about the artists motives based on their own perception of things, people are a lot more nuanced than that and don't like things for a singular reason and the extent to which you may feel certain things about something also vary.
Coolness, badassery and power fantasies aren't mutually exclusive from sexiness or if you want to call it the dreaded '' sexualization '', I mean Shiva clicking her heel when changing phases is really cool and powerful in a feminine way to me but a lot of people won't even notice and some will read negativity into it because '' ermaghurd she's wearing heels muh realism ''.
And I don't think that coolness always has to do with violence or the visual and physical ability to inflict it.
And it can also be about how you inflict it, Ivy in Soul Calibur is a good example of that and how wildly different peoples perceptions of the characters can be.
Not to mention that I don't think that fantasy settings need to be judged based on irl American views on modesty, we're talking about a setting with sexy cat girls and boys walking around. No one in the setting reacts to these designs and characters as unusual.
Just because something is viewed as sexual irl doesn't mean that they are in a fictional setting or to the same extent.

For non-mammals, it is actually strange they have breasts. But well... on the other hand, humans in the game don't have nipples.

That's actually pretty funny xD, I had no idea this was even the case until now.
Shirtless male characters missing nipples is something I've seen in other games too for some reason.

Dont think it's being suggested that they cant have charisma, but charisma is something associated with story and background. A lot of bosses are not going to have this by virtue of them being, well, just a boss. Sophia, as an example, isnt going to really have a ton of time to be charismatic. What dialogue she has is going to be flavor for the encounter to give us a broad idea of what she is. True charisma, like that of Emet Selch or other bosses, takes time to develop.

Which gets back to the primary point - What is being asked for. More or less Male Eye Candy. You get some Charisma in on that, all the better. If it has to be one or the other, though, people are arguing for more skin and sexiness.

I think that this is what some in this thread are asking for, but I don't think that it's what people on Twitter which the OP linked to are asking for.
And as I stated above, in general people spend way more time complaining about female characters showing skin than they do actually asking for more male skin being shown and such.

I think that in general a lot of game developers are afraid of upsetting their male audience many of which are very insecure and homophobia isn't really that uncommon.
So instead of adding more male characters like that they just erase it with the female characters to avoid having to strive more for equal options for everyone.
The mentality in the West especially is basically '' either only the female characters can be sexy or no one can '' ( in general ).
Even sexy male characters in most Western games in particular are still designed to appeal to the stereotypical '' CoD dudebro '', they're still very '' hyper masculine '' super ultra muscular in a way that I think mostly appeals to men.
In FFXIV and Japanese games in general tho a bit more femininity seems to be generally accepted, I don't think that anyone would complain if we got more of it in FFXIV.

[REPROBEAN_CHILD]

To me, it's because she has a human face and body. Heck, her feathers are even designed in such a way that it looks like more like clothing. I do somewhat give her a pass because SE were clearly using her FFXI design as a reference, but... honestly, I'd like her way more if she were actually a bird (imagine if her design was similar to the Rito from Breath of the Wild. Way better, imo). She's summoned by the Ixal! You'd think they'd go for a more monster bird look.

They stepped in the right direction with the Sahagin Queen final boss. I'd like to see more Beastman and monster ladies (who are not 50-95% human in design).

Garuda doesn't have to look like an outright monster, though. Goddesses were generally attractive to the people who worship them. This is true even in actual myths and religions. Honestly, she looks just as "human" as Titan, who looks nothing like the Kobalds. The only "real" bestial Primals/trials were Ifirt, Leviathan, Bismarck, King Moggle Mog, and Bahamut. Most of the other bosses were either idealized humanoids or a fusion of both, like Seiryu and Ravana.

[TheRealQuah]

Not different than trying to state something as "the truth" and just giving a vague (and generic) argument. And when asked for more solid stuff is responded with "is not my job to educate you".



Then how you explain the overrepresentation of women/men in certain sectors that still happens today even a myriad of measures has been put in place?

Things are not going to change overnight. My parents generation were still expected to see the Mother stay at home and look after the kids. These measures that are being put in place have been around for such an incredibly short amount of time, and in such a small amount of countries that major change will take generations. And there's still around 50% or more in other countries of right wing/alt-right people who do not want to see progressive policies put in place and it takes time to roll over these people.

Feminism once was about equality. Now women have equal rights, but this new wave of feminism wants more than that and as such they're the only ones I've seen shaming women into not following their proposed doctrine.

If I make a statement and you say that I'm wrong then it is entirely your responsibility to provide proof to the contrary. If it wasn't then all you would have to do to end an argument is to just say "you're wrong".

If you really believe that the burden of proof is not on the person making the claim in the first place, then there is no way I can have a reasonable discussion with you, because you are going to believe what you want to believe regardless of the facts and evidence. This is how it works on every country on the planet. If I come to you and say, you killed a person, it's up to me to prove that you did, not up to you to prove that you didn't.

If that were the case it wouldn't matter how many sources someone could site to make their claim, the opposing side could just dismiss them with "you're wrong" without having to show any evidence.

Well, if you made a claim, and came to me with lots of sources backing it up, then I'm not gonna say that you're wrong. I'm not a conservative, I can accept facts and can have my mind changed.

All I can account for is the US so I can't make any claims for any other country, but, in the US women have equal rights. Period. They can vote, get an education and hold a job of their choosing. It is illegal to deny this based on gender, race, sexuality or religion.

What you're thinking of is the disparity between men and women in certain fields. The idea that there has to be a 50/50 split of men and women in all things which is both wrong and if enforced is discrimination, which is illegal.

A quick Google search shows me that in the most recent study, in the US, Women who are doing the exact same job as a man earn 78c per $1 earned by the man. Oh and there are also many states in the US which either restrict or criminalise Women's rights to do what they want with their own bodies.

[TheRealQuah]

I get your point about the free choice. I have nothing against that.

But the matter of patriarchy is far more and subtile than that and sometimes, the "documented" patriarchy is often just the view from the XIX/XXth bourgeoisie (or what mainstrem journalism or school teachers keep as "historical truth") . For many people from low classes they were just doing what they can in order to survive. Women were helping in the fields too. It's just it was more easy to give the activity that require the most strenght to men and to keep someone to take care of the children and to deal with the farmyard. We can't be in two place in the same time.

This said, I agree monotheisms are pretty patriarchals.

About feminism and neo-feminism. Maybe. The thing that makes me sad is when women clame they want to act the same way than men, despising courteousness. It is even worst when they talk a way that lets think they would prefer to be one on these primitive brainless proud arm rather than both feminine and wise...

I respect your points and can agree with much of what you say. I think things are different in different countries. Where I am from, we are quite backwards compared to the rest of Western Europe. Our media is 90% owned by right wing billionaires who don't want to see progressive policies. Our public news service fired a woman recently for having an opinion different of that to the government on a big issue recently.

I live in a place where the government voted against implementing laws making upskirting and FGM illegal.

[Krotoan]

A quick Google search shows me that in the most recent study, in the US, Women who are doing the exact same job as a man earn 78c per $1 earned by the man. Oh and there are also many states in the US which either restrict or criminalise Women's rights to do what they want with their own bodies.

I could not find this data for samejob/different sex studies. Everything I found mentioned 98 cents to the 1 dollar for the exact same job and 81cents on the dollar for a non-adjusted wage gap. Also it is illegal in many states for a company to pay someone less for the same job just because they are female.
It sounds like you are quoting the gender pay gap, not actual wage discrimination.
Can you share your research?

https://www.payscale.com/data/gender-pay-gap
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelse.../#170e06af28ba
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...pay-gap-facts/

[Vyrerus]

A quick Google search shows me that in the most recent study, in the US, Women who are doing the exact same job as a man earn 78c per $1 earned by the man. Oh and there are also many states in the US which either restrict or criminalise Women's rights to do what they want with their own bodies.

This is a statistically distorted myth that's carried on and on by mainstream media. The only reason women working in the exact same jobs as men earn less is because they take more time off for maternity leave, health breaks, and all other similar things.

Also Conservatives have open minds to reasonable arguments. Most people do, regardless of socio-political stance.