"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[KalinOrthos]

Also, as for my extreme example, again you're just playing at semantics. Pretend I'm one of his friends then, thoroughly involved in their conversation, and decided to blurt out some well intended but completely tactless advice about his bedwetting. Maybe the advice would help our "sleepover" be more pleasant for everyone involved. I'd still be a complete dick to do it right in front of all of his friends, who may or may not have noticed his problem.

Really, what is it with you and this bedwetting example? Really? You even state yourself it's an extreme example, and it's not even relevant. The level of embarrassment is not even close to being on par with being told "hey, if you do x, you'll play better". The amount of anguish being outed to your friends about an incontinence issue is soul-destroying and mortifying in the excess, whereas being told that you should probably do your rotation, as a rotation-based class, is only being told "hey you should do what you're supposed to do". Seriously, stop with the false equivalencies, you're only making yourself look more and more foolish.

[Goji1639]

Really, what is it with you and this bedwetting example? Really? You even state yourself it's an extreme example, and it's not even relevant. The level of embarrassment is not even close to being on par with being told "hey, if you do x, you'll play better". The amount of anguish being outed to your friends about an incontinence issue is soul-destroying and mortifying in the excess, whereas being told that you should probably do your rotation, as a rotation-based class, is only being told "hey you should do what you're supposed to do". Seriously, stop with the false equivalencies, you're only making yourself look more and more foolish.

A) It is relevant; it being extreme doesn't make it irrelevant, it just makes it a very easy to grasp illustration of the reason WHY you don't address peoples problems in public.

B) I'm responding to people who are addressing the example, so of course I'll keep referencing it.

There's a reason you're not supposed to criticize in public. That reason doesn't go away if one criticism is less embarrassing than another. People don't like being embarrassed in public even over small stuff, so you should try not to do that kind of thing unless it's important. Otherwise you're probably just going to start a fight.

[KalinOrthos]

A) It is relevant; it being extreme doesn't make it irrelevant, it just makes it a very easy to grasp illustration of the reason WHY you don't address peoples problems in public.

It's not relevant at all! It's a false equivalence. Something equivalent to what you're proposing would be in voice chat with friends and someone accidentally deadnames a friend who hasn't come out about their past yet. Your example requires a pre-existing strong bond of trust, a close circle of friends, and a secret you'd rather not have people know because of how embarrassing/shameful it is or is perceived to be. A closer example to the reality would be a cramped elevator with coworkers, but one of your coworkers is taking up more space than they need to; soon as you ask them to make a bit of room for other people, they react with a scowl and passive aggressiveness. THAT is a closer equivalence to what we're arguing and much more relevant than your...absurdity.

B) I'm responding to people who are addressing the example, so of course I'll keep referencing it.

You could just move on after having acknowledged its absurdity, but instead you cling to it for dear life, because it's the only remotely, vaguely similar example that MAY support your argument, relevance be damned.

There's a reason you're not supposed to criticize in public. That reason doesn't go away if one criticism is less embarrassing than another. People don't like being embarrassed in public even over small stuff, so if you should save that kind of thing for when it's important. Otherwise you're probably just going to start a fight.

The criticisms aren't even in public! You aren't jumping onto Novice Network on going "HEY [playername]! YOU SHOULD DO THIS!" It's in a party, with words that will probably never leave the instance, with other players you'll never see again, in an attempt to make the run smoother, and to make the player harder, better, faster, stronger. If someone is going to act with rage at the AUDACITY of being told that their way of play is hampering the rest of the group, then they're a lost cause and are often promptly ignored, but not every player is like that; in fact, most people are receptive, so long as you don't outright attack them. And here's the thing: RARELY have I seen someone outright attack another player, and in the instances I did see it, I rebuked their elitist asses, while at the same time giving the somewhat same advice in a more palatable dish.

[Goji1639]

snip.

It's not a false equivalency, it's perfectly apt. The only element that needs to be present for it to fit this context is embarrassment, which it provides in a way that's simple for all of you to grasp. Through that example it's made clear WHY causing public embarrassment for a person isn't the best way to approach offering criticism. Do it in private.

And, in this context "public" refers to the group you're in. If you're on a team there are certain things you do in front of the team and certain things you do in private with individual members of the team. When offering criticism you do it in private. Doing it in front of the team is demoralizing and embarrassing.

[KalinOrthos]

It's not a false equivalency, it's perfectly apt. The only element that needs to be present for it to fit this context is embarrassment, which it provides in a way that's simple for all of you to grasp. Through that example it's made clear WHY causing public embarrassment for a person isn't the best way to approach offering criticism. Do it in private.

for dear life

And, in this context "public" refers to the group you're in. If you're on a team there are certain things you do in front of the team and certain things you do in private with individual members of the team. When offering criticism you do it in private. Doing it in front of the team is demoralizing and embarrassing.

If I'm on a group project with other people and someone is actively doing things that make the project run worse, you'd be foolish not to address it. What matters is the urgency in which you do. In an instance, whispers are disabled, and if you are to seek the person out afterwards, I don't know about you, but that strikes me as pretty f***ing creepy, especially when people do so anyways trying to slide into my DMs. It's faster and better to just state it in party chat. That's just a fact. Maybe you should stop taking any sort of critique of your play as a personal attack.