Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[VentVanitas]

There are some concerns right now I have for the Greased Lightning rework, but ultimately I am grateful they're doing SOMETHING after sleeping on it for so long.

The rework means that a huge number of skills will potentially be adjusted: Tornado Kick, Six Sided Star, Riddle of Earth, Form Shift, Anatman, Perfect Balance, etc. Are all moves that effect GL, and therefore are potentially targets for adjustments to coincide with the new GL. I don't expect full reworks of these moves obviously (since it's been implied that a few will stay mostly the same such as PB and Form Shift), but it's pretty evident that some will have to be changed, such as TK.

Either way, the decreased Perfect Balance cooldown should be a net DPS gain. It's more mind numbing Bootshine spam, sure, but it's more damage nonetheless. Anything less than 2 minutes will make it infinitely easier to line up with Riddle of Fire and Brotherhood. Even better if it's been reduced to 90 seconds.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Here are the specific adjustments.

- They want to make Monk's Greased Lightning a trait instead but since it'll take a lot of cost to complete this they want to implement this change by Patch 5.4

- Perfect Balance's cooldown will be decreased

- Form Shift will have one form reduced.

A little confused about the third one and lol at the second one. From the sound of it, it will either return to patch 4.2 where it was 60 seconds or would just be 90 seconds.

Also a little reprehensive about the scale of it be on the nin rework given how a lot of people loved the rework in 5.1 but I know a good amount of people who hated it.

Edit: the changes were taken from the ffxiv reddit discord.

Ah, I didn't see there had been further translations being more specific. GL as purely a trait (instead of the boring/unrewarding gauge we currently have) is kind of the cowards way out, I would have preferred to still have something there to keep the job semi engaging. But I also can't complain either, GL has been at the bottom of the gutter in terms of a gauge to manage, it was the most tedious unrewarding thing to keep up and its only benefit outside of being fast was 'just about being on par with the other melee'. I honestly hope with GL being a trait that we can use 6SS and TK as part of the rotation and I suppose Anatman would need to receive a complete rework.

[Powercow]

I have a very bad feeling about this. If turning Greased Lightning into a trait is the difficult part of the rework, I wouldn't get my hopes up seeing anything except some potency tweaks and, if we're lucky, a minor change to an ability or two.

Turning Greased Lightning into a trait seems... well it kinda smacks of them removing another mechanic from monk. It's not an especially engaging mechanic, but I have some serious reservations that Monk is going to get anything else to compensate for a mechanic being removed. They never have before, why start now?

I'd love to be proven wrong here but... yeah...

[Rika007]

I have a very bad feeling about this. If turning Greased Lightning into a trait is the difficult part of the rework, I wouldn't get my hopes up seeing anything except some potency tweaks and, if we're lucky, a minor change to an ability or two.

Turning Greased Lightning into a trait seems... well it kinda smacks of them removing another mechanic from monk. It's not an especially engaging mechanic, but I have some serious reservations that Monk is going to get anything else to compensate for a mechanic being removed. They never have before, why start now?

I'd love to be proven wrong here but... yeah...

It is a concern but by that same right that also would force changes out of Multiple abilities that's entire reason for being is in some relationship with Greased Lightning, thus meaning they could maybe finally make what were supposed to be premier abilities that were niche can now actually be premier. Six Sided Star and Tornado Kick may actually finally become the big moves they should have been. Form Shift and Anatman would need to be completely reworked.

[VentVanitas]

I have a very bad feeling about this. If turning Greased Lightning into a trait is the difficult part of the rework, I wouldn't get my hopes up seeing anything except some potency tweaks and, if we're lucky, a minor change to an ability or two.

Turning Greased Lightning into a trait seems... well it kinda smacks of them removing another mechanic from monk. It's not an especially engaging mechanic, but I have some serious reservations that Monk is going to get anything else to compensate for a mechanic being removed. They never have before, why start now?

I'd love to be proven wrong here but... yeah...

I am just as weary and sceptical as you are, but a rework like this potentially frees MNK from the shackles it's been tied to since ARR. It might no longer be just the "Greased Lightning" job that everybody has known it for so many years. Though, that's the optimist in me speaking and I am aware I'm being too hopeful with something that the dev team is known to screw up literally every single time.

At the very worst, this change frees Monk in 6.0 for a lot of new ideas, instead of SE constantly making skills that revolve around GL maintenance.

[Powercow]

It is a concern but by that same right that also would force changes out of Multiple abilities that's entire reason for being is in some relationship with Greased Lightning, thus meaning they could maybe finally make what were supposed to be premier abilities that were niche can now actually be premier. Six Sided Star and Tornado Kick may actually finally become the big moves they should have been. Form Shift and Anatman would need to be completely reworked.

None of those abilities would actually "need" to be reworked if they removed the Greased Lightning interaction, except Tornado Kick being nerfed to hit like a wet noodle (essentially have it replace Steel Peak.) Would they all become completely redundant or so comically niche as to almost never see use? Yes, but the last half-decade of Monk seems to imply this is actually their gameplan.

Call me a pessimist if you'd like, but unless there's some mindblowing stuff in 5.3 I'm going to consider this on the same tier as Stormblood being the monk expansion, or Monk getting a much-needed rework for Shadowbringers' launch.

At the very worst, this change frees Monk in 6.0 for a lot of new ideas, instead of SE constantly making skills that revolve around GL maintenance.

The thing is, the development team has never actually been shackled to making GL-maintenence skills every expansion. They just.. *have* been doing it for some reason, which either means they think that Monks were still somehow dropping Greased Lightning and thus keep needing all these new skills for that, or they have no idea on what to actually do with the job and are just going with the "safe" choice.

[reyre]

I am just as weary and sceptical as you are, but a rework like this potentially frees MNK from the shackles it's been tied to since ARR. It might no longer be just the "Greased Lightning" job that everybody has known it for so many years. Though, that's the optimist in me speaking and I am aware I'm being too hopeful with something that the dev team is known to screw up literally every single time.

At the very worst, this change frees Monk in 6.0 for a lot of new ideas, instead of SE constantly making skills that revolve around GL maintenance.

Interesting i have always thought that at is core MNK was pretty fun, as in doing positionals and maintaining the 2 buffs well 4 at one point, however i agree GL4 was nail in the coffin. it would take anywere between 4 and 12 GCD to regain stacks, honestly more than TK and 6SS i want to see if they rework BH and fist stances. BH being the worst skill in MNK skillset, you have zero control over the use of forbiden chakra and BH forces MNK into very specific party compositions and even then you would still lose some FC because of chakra overflow. hopefully they will address this along with the GL changes.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Interesting i have always thought that at is core MNK was pretty fun, as in doing positionals and maintaining the 2 buffs well 4 at one point, however i agree GL4 was nail in the coffin. it would take anywere between 4 and 12 GCD to regain stacks, honestly more than TK and 6SS i want to see if they rework BH and fist stances. BH being the worst skill in MNK skillset, you have zero control over the use of forbiden chakra and BH forces MNK into very specific party compositions and even then you would still lose some FC because of chakra overflow. hopefully they will address this along with the GL changes.

I'm also interested in whether they will rework the fist stances and BH. I understand they didn't want to detail out every change. But out of all the major ones, GL as a mechanic/gauge and BH along with many useless skills (stances included) were the key ones.

With the changes to GL I would assume that fists would also be changed, but I feel weary of how the developers will handle it based on their past experience. Logically, Fists should be removed as FoW wouldnt provide GL4 anymore, forcing FoF to be dominant again. Even GL becoming traits imo is a cop out, I would have preferred if just the speed became a trait and the damage increase remained and then add a decent reward for keeping GL up. Still, not that I mind its removal as a mechanic as it may be what the job needs in order to actually evolve. If they could make chakras a consistent thing then it would be possible to add back oGCDs that were lost such as IR, Howling Fist, Steel Peak etc as currently the RNG nature of the chakras eats up a lot of oGCD slots during our burst window.

I am interested in how current skills will change to accommodate for the GL changes in future, TK and Anatman are primary skills involved with GL currently so there would need to be change there and to a lesser degree RoE, Form Shift and 6SS however their secondary effects could simply be removed and they'd still be functionable. 6SS definitely needs the GCD slowdown removed though, the slowdown directly impacts when you can form shift, spam meditate and then sit in anatman if needed. Downtime just feels overly clunky and 6SS doesn't help the cause. I'd also be interested in whether the Coeurl form skills will see a different secondary effect now or if they will just be removed and be just damage and a dot.

I think everyone is weary for one reason or another since this is MNK and if the last expansion taught us anything it's that, none of these changes might even stick in 6.0. see: TK and amazing GL management in 4.2. I want to remain optimistic though that any kind of rework will be better than what we currently have.

[Xau]

as i see it
whit the decrease of perfect balance cd they might doing a step back on them nerfing the tornado kick rotation, and whit the change of gl stacks, it means what gl stacks might become on its own a resource what does not affect our damage(as in the buff gl gives currently), so they might accepting what tornado kick needs use instead of sitting there.... just existing, and that is if dragon kick>bootshine is not more powerful than tornado kick under perfect balance(i am asuming what gl stacks will remaing there just as resource generated by the usual method)
SSS might be just either a free ogcd, or it might do something else like give us some chakra stacks, anatman will be certainly be changed into a chakra generation for downtime(less spam) alongside its other benefits what aren't linked to gl stacks putting it on a similar line of samurai meditation(resources generation)
i hope they remove the fist forms or decide to not do anything whit them(as in no gimmicks requiring you to change of fists of...) either now or on the next expansion, because whit the changes to gl, it literally will make fist of fire basically the buff you will use the 100% of the time... again
riddle of earth will become by default a longer true north, i wonder if they will keep the you need to be hit or not to trigger it
and i do not get what they will try to do whit form shift, but i can see that as a mistranslation or something probably

[reyre]

as i see it
whit the decrease of perfect balance they might doing a step back on them nerfing the tornado kick rotation, and whit the change of gl stacks, it means what gl stacks might become on its own a resource what does not affect our damage(as in the buff gl gives currently), so they might accepting what tornado kick needs use instead of sitting there.... just existing, and that is if dragon kick>bootshine is not more powerful than tornado kick under perfect balance
SSS might be just either a free ogcd, or it might do something else like give us some chakra stacks, anatman will be certainly be changed into a chakra generation for downtime(less spam) alongside its other benefits what aren't linked to gl stacks putting it on a similar line of samurai meditation(resources generation)
i hope they remove the forms or decide to not do anything whit them(as in no gimmicks requiring you to change of fists of...) either now or on the next expansion, because whit the changes to gl, it literally will make fist of fire basically the buff you will use the 100% of the time
riddle of earth will become by default a longer true north, i wonder if they will keep the you need to be hit or not to trigger it
and i do not get what they will try to do whit form shift, but i can see that as a mistranslation or something probably

Adding to this it would be nice that PB would be a flat six GCDs instead of 10 seconds, that simple change would make almost every PING/framrate related issues non existant and would allow for some flexibility whitout actually changing the skill use.