"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Lucy_Pyre]

Lol - dancer aoe on 2 is higher potency than single target. And aoe procs are higher potency than single target 1 2, and is only not worth using if you're about to lose your timer on a single target proc

and yes, obviously I know regen and holy are good abilities, but regen is not always the "best" heal. Why regen 3 when you can put up a medica. And no, if a healer doesn't want to spam the shit out of holy because they aren't comfortable, I will absolutely vote along side them to kick that spammer. And as I pointed out before, i'm of the opinion that if someone uses poor wording, it is also their responsibility and compounds the rudeness of their "advice"

No one gets comfortable doing something without doing it to reach comfort. If someone says they aren't going to DPS and heal as a healer because they aren't comfortable then I'm simply going to suggest to them that they can't get comfortable doing it without doing it. I would much rather wipe once because the healer is stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to improve than simply have an issue-less, slow run because the healer is being a healbot doing zero damage.

[Laesha]

No one gets comfortable doing something without doing it to reach comfort. If someone says they aren't going to DPS and heal as a healer because they aren't comfortable then I'm simply going to suggest to them that they can't get comfortable doing it without doing it. I would much rather wipe once because the healer is stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to improve than simply have an issue-less, slow run because the healer is being a healbot doing zero damage.

Which is fine for you I suppose. Their performance is not that important to me.

[Daibunnie]

Which is fine for you I suppose. Their performance is not that important to me.

Your party member's performance isn't important to you? Wonder if it would be important if they started adding dps checks and enrages to normal dungeon bosses.

[Goji1639]

I don't think there's anything overly wrong with offering unsolicited advice, IF it's polite, but people should understand that it's probably not welcome.

First, let's disregard all of the 90 minute timeout runs where nobody in the group can even name the game they're playing, that a few of us are claiming to always end up in. In certain situations even unwelcome advice is appropriate.

Now, let's assume a run where everything's going alright... Not great, just alright. Even if it's polite, do you honestly think people enjoy having their gameplay called out in front of the group when it wasn't necessary to do so? It's presumptuous and kind of pompous. It would probably be received better if the advice was given in a private message instead of in group chat; it would at least be less likely to result in a fight.

Regardless, I think a lot of people in this game, for some reason, just believe the whole world is very interested in their opinions. I feel like this is a community full of those people who walk around correcting peoples pronunciation of words, or critiquing their clothes and then acting baffled when someone finally tells them to just shut up. Like they never developed a sense of when picking at people isn't helpful, and is just annoying.

[Veis_Alveare]

I don't think there's anything overly wrong with offering unsolicited advice, but people should do so with the understanding that it's probably not welcome.

First, let's disregard all of the 90 minute timeout runs where nobody in the group can even name the game they're playing, that a few of us are claiming to always end up in. In certain situations even unwelcome advice is appropriate.

Now, let's assume a run where everything's going alright... Not great, just alright. Even if it's polite, do you honestly think people enjoy having their gameplay called out in front of the group when it wasn't necessary to do so? It's presumptuous and kind of pompous. Honestly, it would probably be received better if the advice was given in a private message instead of in group chat.

Regardless, I think a lot of people in this game, for some reason, just believe the whole world is very interested in their opinions. I feel like this is a community full of those people who walk around correcting peoples pronunciation of words, or critiquing their clothes and then acting baffled when someone finally tells them to just shut up. Like they never developed a sense of when picking at people isn't helpful, and is just annoying.

Similarly, there is a group of people in this game who walk around with the incredibly entitled opinion that anyone they're working on anything with is responsible for picking up their slack no matter the situation. I'd imagine these are people who were always lucky enough to get grouped with others in school who didn't mind putting in extra effort. At work they're likely intolerable nuisances who can hardly do their own jobs much less help anyone else but they still act like they're equal to their peers.

Irl analogues aside you don't get to determine when advice becomes necessary. For you that's before you time out in a dungeon, cool, just don't give advice before that point then.

Other people have different thresholds of acceptable play. They're going to offer advice when they see fit.

Perhaps the best way to avoid the embarrassment of being given unsolicited advice is educating yourself on the game and the job you're on - that way you're secure in your abilities if someone does feel the need to call you out on something and knowledgable enough about the mechanics of the instance you're in/job you're on that you're able to explain why what you're doing is correct.

Insulating people from discussion on improvement only causes the divide in the playerbase to widen.

[Goji1639]

Similarly, there is a group of people in this game who walk around with the incredibly entitled opinion that anyone they're working on anything with is responsible for picking up their slack no matter the situation. I'd imagine these are people who were always lucky enough to get grouped with others in school who didn't mind putting in extra effort. At work they're likely intolerable nuisances who can hardly do their own jobs much less help anyone else but they still act like they're equal to their peers.

Irl analogues aside you don't get to determine when advice becomes necessary. For you that's before you time out in a dungeon, cool, just don't give advice before that point then.

Other people have different thresholds of acceptable play. They're going to offer advice when they see fit.

Perhaps the best way to avoid the embarrassment of being given unsolicited advice is educating yourself on the game and the job you're on - that way you're secure in your abilities if someone does feel the need to call you out on something and knowledgable enough about the mechanics of the instance you're in/job you're on that you're able to explain why what you're doing is correct.

Insulating people from discussion on improvement only causes the divide in the playerbase to widen.

I'm aware some of you just like to nag, and will set the bar wherever you think will allow you to pester strangers as frequently as possible.

Most people, however, can recognize when a run is going fine and when a run needs something to change. When a run is going fine unsolicited advice is basically just calling someone out in front of the group; and trying to make that smell better with some polite wording isn't super likely to prevent the other person from taking it as an insult.

I'm just not sure why you all act surprised by the idea that people don't enjoy being picked at. Some of you understanding that and conducting yourselves accordingly would prevent a lot of conflict in this community.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I'm aware some of you just like to nag, and will set the bar wherever you think will allow you pester strangers as frequently as possible.

Most people, however, can recognize when a run is going fine and when a run needs something to change. When a run is going fine unsolicited advice is basically just calling someone out in front of the group; and trying to make that smell better with some polite wording isn't super likely to prevent the other person from taking it as an insult.

I'm just not sure why you all act surprised by the idea that people don't enjoy being picked at. Some of you understanding that and conducting yourselves accordingly would prevent a lot of conflict in this community.

So basically, "unsolicited advice" is just a crutch the ignorant use to stay willfully ignorant...

[Vahlnir]

So basically, "unsolicited advice" is just a crutch the ignorant use to stay willfully ignorant...

They are right about one thing regardless, as much as I don't like admitting it. If things are going fine then it probably isn't necessary to say much of anything.

[Goji1639]

So basically, "unsolicited advice" is just a crutch the ignorant use to stay willfully ignorant...

No one needs a "crutch," if they don't want to learn they're not going to; and if they do want to learn they have a billion better options than being picked at by some dude in a roulette.

A roulette isn't a classroom and you're not a teacher; no one in that situation agreed or is obligated to respect your tutelage. So, realize that acting like it's a classroom, and you're a teacher, is kind of pompous and will likely be received poorly.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

No one needs a "crutch," if they don't want to learn they're not going to; and if they do want to learn they have a billion better options than being picked at by some dude in a roulette.

A roulette isn't a classroom and you're not a teacher; no one in that situation agreed or is obligated to respect your tutelage. So, realize that acting like it's a classroom, and you're a teacher, is kind of pompous and will likely be received poorly.

No one in that situation agreed or is obligated to respect someone's ignorance either. And in the case of the wilfully ignorant, it's pretty arrogant to assume others should be fine with your lack of effort and should gladly work extra to carry your load.

There's a reason basic education is mandatory in most countries, and people don't start the game already knowing how to play it. Dismissing information out of laziness and unwillingness to learn is absolutely pompous to the rest of the group and may be received poorly as well.

Best to cover all your bases and be open to learning.