"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[ForteNightshade]

If the run is going completely fine regardless, but you need to start a fight about it anyways because "ZOMG the disrespect of making my run take a few minutes longer!" then imo you're more of a problem than that healer is.

Sometimes people get a little lazy in ridiculously easy content. It's not worth picking at people and starting fights over; people who do that are just annoying.

Hence why I won't Vote Kick them instead. I'm sorry but a Bard not playing songs utterly destroys their DPS. We're talking putting them at below tank and healer levels which is absurd in Expert Roulette. It isn't just about "muh time!" but the principle of it. You wanna be lazy to that extent? Queue with friends who aren't going to care not with randoms who just want to get things done.

[Goji1639]

A healer not DPSing isn't on the same level as a ninja not using Huton or a Bard not using songs. A healer not DPSing in a dungeon, in most cases, is someone who is just standing there doing nothing for a large chunk of the run.

A healer not DPSing is lazier, but still barely matters. I'm only interested in getting through the run, and as long as the healer is healing people we'll still breeze through any and all roulette content.

If you literally can't live with yourself unless you direct a little tantrum at the healer for this indiscretion, then track him down after the run and argue with him all day if you want.

[Skivvy]

A healer not DPSing is lazier, but still barely matters. I'm only interested in getting through the run, and as long as the healer is healing people we'll still breeze through any and all roulette content.

If you literally can't live with yourself unless you direct a little tantrum at the healer for this indiscretion, then track him down after the run and argue with him all day if you want.

Let me just start by saying I'm incredibly patient player and will stick out awful runs unless the group disbands on its own. Your added snark about not being able to live with myself on slow runs and having tantrums is unnecessary and a stretch.

I am aware that comfort levels and skill will vary greatly between players, and I've never expected top-tier skill from anyone when running dungeons, however people should at least try and do what they can. If someone knows how to DPS as a healer, but simply aren't because they don't feel like it, they are being flat-out lazy. Intentionally being lazy during a run and expecting others to pick up the slack is rude to boot.

[Goji1639]

Let me just start by saying I'm incredibly patient player and will stick out awful runs unless the group disbands on its own. Your added snark about not being able to live with myself on slow runs and having tantrums is unnecessary and a stretch.

I am aware that comfort levels and skill will vary greatly between players, and I've never expected top-tier skill from anyone when running dungeons, however people should at least try and do what they can. If someone knows how to DPS as a healer, but simply aren't because they don't feel like it, they are being flat-out lazy. Intentionally being lazy during a run and expecting others to pick up the slack is rude to boot.

I apologize for the snark; there are a handful of people here I altercate with regularly who deserve it, but you're probably not one of them.

Is being intentionally lazy a little rude? Sure. Honestly, if you vote kicked and the group agreed they don't want to put up with it then that's fine. Don't pick a fight in chat like most people do, though; it's just annoying and it wastes time.

[SturmChurro]

I don't see how it could waste time if the healer is already just standing still and doing nothing.

[Puremallace]

lol watching the FF14 community talk about this stuff compared to other MMO's is so dramatically different on the scale of funny. Wish I could get across to people the pure gem of an MMO you have right now.

Difference between a casual player and an elite player is they might not have the most optimal rotation and a regular competent static. Gear is an illusion that casuals dream about and elite players do not even think about as a factor.

If someone has bad DPS in FF14 or tanks a boss incorrectly in FF14 it is just a matter of explaining to that dps the correct rotation or running the tank through the mechanics and indicators to look for. People seriously need to understand how vastly different this is to this MMO's main competition right now on how simple it is to close the gap.

Just enjoy the game guys and if someone is very rude in a dungeon or raid then make them understand that is not how the FF14 community roles.

[Stanelis]

Honestly, people who only analyze logs in terms of ranking parse are the real casuals, because it doesn't really bring any relevant information.

If you have 100 statics running any given savage floor with 100 jobs of the same class, then no matter their DPS or skill level, there will be people parsing in any color. The metric people need to take a look at isn't the ranking and the color of the parse, it is the individual DPS of each player in regard to the average DPS required per player to clear any given floor. Also, the interesting information is the average DPS in any given floor for a given ILVL for a job, because it can help determine if there is some margin of progression that a player can attain.

[EtherRose]

A healer not DPSing in a dungeon, in most cases, is someone who is just standing there doing nothing for a large chunk of the run.

"Standing there doing nothing". Hmm, so they're not even healing either? And a healer necessarily doesn't have to DPS. They're more focused on keeping everyone alive rather than DPS'ing. The only time a healer should DPS is if the healer is confident in the tank and party members not dying. There was a thread on this concerning healers dps'ing.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Healer-Damage

My reply was - "I don't mind it when healers do damage. The main point of this all is when these "Healer's" think they are a DPS. They spend more time trying to DPS than healing which results in people dying which then causes a wipe. Iv'e seen it happen, healer's get into DPS'ing to much and don't heal and people die. Which causes of course, longer runs."

As for Healers intentionally not DPS'ing = rudeness? To me, no. They are healer's. The time that you will save from running the dungeon is very miniscule if a healer DPS's. So no, no one has to "Pick up the slack" for the healer.

[Cheremia]

I will never forget that me and some others got called toxic raider elitists because...

we wiped about 3 times on Thundergod Cid (was when it was relevant so a while ago) and we wanted everybody to pay attention.
Yes, we only wanted that people pay attention. I don't care who does much dps and who doesn't honestly, all i want is to not wipe because people can't be bothered to pay even a little bit of attention.

Most people were trying so we didn't want to abandon it but those who didn't managed to pull their entire alliances down multiple times.

Being casual is one thing, but hiding behind just plain out not wanting to play the game because "insert reason here" is not okay. If i'm too tired from work, i don't play.
If you want to watch netflix or do whatever while running content that can and will kill you, then i'd also suggest not playing the game.

I do kind of hate HAVING to carry people that refuse to play the game even a little bit

[Skivvy]

"Standing there doing nothing". Hmm, so they're not even healing either? And a healer necessarily doesn't have to DPS. They're more focused on keeping everyone alive rather than DPS'ing. The only time a healer should DPS is if the healer is confident in the tank and party members not dying. There was a thread on this concerning healers dps'ing.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Healer-Damage

My reply was - "I don't mind it when healers do damage. The main point of this all is when these "Healer's" think they are a DPS. They spend more time trying to DPS than healing which results in people dying which then causes a wipe. Iv'e seen it happen, healer's get into DPS'ing to much and don't heal and people die. Which causes of course, longer runs."

As for Healers intentionally not DPS'ing = rudeness? To me, no. They are healer's. The time that you will save from running the dungeon is very miniscule if a healer DPS's. So no, no one has to "Pick up the slack" for the healer.

Yes, if a healer is doing nothing outside of casting heals in a dungeon, there is a strong chance they are going to have a lot of downtime on their hands. There will always be exceptions to this, people may not be comfortable in the role yet, or perhaps they are being extra cautious as they don't know the dungeon/fight well enough and don't want to be stuck mid-cast when massive damage hits, but once you get the hang of things you'll find that a good portion of normal content doesn't require non-stop heals.

As I said earlier, if you're going to group up with people, you should at least try to do the best you can, whatever that may be. If a healer is competent enough to be able to DPS, but simply doesn't because they just don't feel like it, that's where I start having an issue. If I have something in my kit that would be beneficial to the group, I'm going to use it if I can and I would hope that others would as well.