It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Iscah]

This would be part of the reason why I think it would have been nice if they had created a glamour system that consistently articulated a FF vibe, like less restrictions on most pieces of gear (probably something to do with weight classes and then AF/job specific being used for only the iconic imagery)

I do agree with this. If there was going to be any sort of "style restriction" to prevent immersion breaking then it should have been implemented globally from the start with stricter rules about gear design styles. Keep everyone on the same page and in control of their own character, just be more selective about the choices that players are presented with. But that's a horse that has long since bolted.

That said, an "FF vibe" can be anything from high fantasy to modern to sci-fi to whatever part of the fantasy kitchen sink they feel like throwing us into today.

While I appreciate the more high fantasy side of things myself, a lot of people seem to be looking to the more modern outfits. I don't know what research is guiding their decisions on glamour gear, but it's going over well whether I like it or not.

Ultimately, if SE had any intention of protecting us from immersion-breaking glamour then they'd stop putting in things like the Namazu and bunny outfits.

Why bother setting up a glamour when the only one who sees it is yourself.

To be fair, glamour isn't just about dressing up for others. It's also about creating it for myself. But - like picking clothes in real life - any outfit I've put together for my character will be based on the two important questions (a) do I like how this looks? and (b) am I happy to wear this in public?

Sometimes I do make glamours that don't fit that rule. There are some that I've put together and taken arty screenshots of, but wouldn't wear in a town or dungeon. (To be clear, things like a White Rabbit costume that looked great in the specific pictures I took but stood out cartoonishly anywhere else, or a set of themed glamours I'm working on that will need some of my characters in elaborate robes they wouldn't normally wear.)

Much like in real life, as a cosplayer, I'll wear a costume at a convention but feel dreadfully silly if I have to wear it while getting there on the train, and certainly wouldn't wear the outfit "as myself". And still I pick costume choices based on my own taste in clothing - though at least with the choice to add tights under skirts if I want.

So yeah. On the one hand yes, glamours are "for me", but that doesn't mean I don't care about how my character is presented to others. The two things are intrinsically linked.


Edit to add: I have just as much fun dressing up characters in single-player games, on the rare occasion that they have complex customisation options like this one.

[Iscah]

It's a video game for crying out loud. Why does it bother you so much that the pixels on my screen may be different than the pixels on yours? I mean, this is going beyond the realm of the absurd to be so worried about how your character appears to others to this degree.

I care about those pixels when those pixels are representing my character-the-player-avatar, which is how I appear in and interact with the game world and hypothetical-you via your avatar.

I've gone into this before. It's different approaches to how people think about player avatars. On the one hand, yes in the immediate sense they're just "pixels on a screen" but those pixels are being piloted by a live human being just as much as your personal character is.

I don't want to forget that. I don't want to think of other people in the game as nothing but pixels.

And no, this isn't [insert preferred "trapped in an MMO" anime here] where they're literally in the game, but simply that at some level by playing a multiplayer game - any game really - some part of your mental self is inserted into that bundle of pixels.

You don't say "I input a series of button commands to instruct the game to reduce the boss's HP". You say "I killed the boss".

While you are playing, your character is "you" and there's nothing strange about talking about your character in the first person.

Therefore if you are on my screen, I am seeing you.

If I see someone I know, I think "there's my friend X", not "there's the set of pixels representing X". Interacting with them is, to my mind, interacting with a real person - because ultimately that's what I'm doing.

So that is how I interpret other people in the game, and therefore how I feel about other people seeing me in the game.

[Joven]

le snip

The reason you say "I killed the boss" is because you're the one who did all the work by pushing buttons and inputting commands. Your character is just a representaion of those commands on the screen. They don't actually accomplish anything. I say "I" do something in a game, not because I see myself as the character, but because I'm the one at the helm. When you play a game with an established character like Sonic or Mario or Geralt you still say "I beat the boss" because you're the one doing the work, not the character.

When it comes to interacting with friends it's basically just a glorified chat room. You refer to them by their screen names because that's either all you know them by, or because being an online arena you don't want to give out real names lightly. Your avatar is essentially your profile pic.

[Zabuza]

Imagine this situation. You have a roommate, and two televisions in the house. You both want to watch TV simultaneously. She wants to watch a chick flick and you want to watch an action movie.

You turn on the TV in your room just to have your roommate pull you out by the arm and force you to the other TV to watch their chick flick with them. You protest and say you wanted to watch your action movie, but she insists you must watch this chick flick with her.

'But there's another TV back there', you say. 'I can watch my action movie and you can watch your chick flick, everyone wins.'

'No!' She replies. 'I don't care, you have to watch this chick flick with me because I want to show my preferences and life experience through this movie.'

'You can still watch your show out here though and enjoy it and I can enjoy mine in the other room.' You point out again.

'Stop trying to censor me!' She shrieks.

[Iscah]

...

That is a phenomenally tortured metaphor.

You're talking about two people watching completely disconnected movies.

This is about a game world being shared by both people.

[Zabuza]

That is a phenomenally tortured metaphor.

You're talking about two people watching completely disconnected movies.

This is about a game world being shared by both people.

It is not tortured at all. This is, in a nutshell, what this thread has been about. In my scenario, the apartment is shared by two people. One person decided that their need to have the other person see what they wanted them to see was paramount. That is the argument of those in this thread. You insist people have to see the outfit you've compiled, even though what they argue would pose no harm to you, and you would not even know about it.

[Joven]

It is not tortured at all. This is, in a nutshell, what this thread has been about. In my scenario, the apartment is shared by two people. One person decided that their need to have the other person see what they wanted them to see was paramount. That is the argument of those in this thread. You insist people have to see the outfit you've compiled, even though what they argue would pose no harm to you, and you would not even know about it.

I think the argument is that they *would* know about it by dint of the knowledge that feature exists in the first place. That someone would be using it because it's there.

[Gula]

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/202007160001/

Partial translation taken from a tweet:
The system used for the umbrellas is apparently going to be expanded into something called "Fashion Items," and Yoshi P mentions wanting to walk around with a stuffed animal as an example.

Imagine standing amidst the ruins of Amarot and not only do you have 10 people revving their SDS Fenrirs, but you've got a Roe in a bunny suit holding a stuffed bunny. Though in this case, imagine all those people without glamours revving their SDS fenrirs in mismatch gear and a Roe in an ill fitting dress, Neo-Ishgardian boots, holding a stuffed bunny.

[Lihtleita]

lmao imagine thinking sexy glamours is more immersion breaking then the majority of ppl around you wearing the exact same mismatched tome and raid sets.

[Theodric]

The system would not need to be implemented in a way that forced gear to be mismatched. Instead, it could easily default to displaying other characters in their chosen playable race's starter gear, their chosen job's initial relic set or a plain grey robe.

Would that be immersion breaking to some? Perhaps. Though personally, I'd find it very welcome as other players outside of my immediate social network are simply faces in a crowd. It'd also help with loading times when many players are in the same zone, which is a major bonus and the primary reason the feature already exists in certain other MMO's.