It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Iscah]

This would be part of the reason why I think it would have been nice if they had created a glamour system that consistently articulated a FF vibe, like less restrictions on most pieces of gear (probably something to do with weight classes and then AF/job specific being used for only the iconic imagery)

I do agree with this. If there was going to be any sort of "style restriction" to prevent immersion breaking then it should have been implemented globally from the start with stricter rules about gear design styles. Keep everyone on the same page and in control of their own character, just be more selective about the choices that players are presented with. But that's a horse that has long since bolted.

That said, an "FF vibe" can be anything from high fantasy to modern to sci-fi to whatever part of the fantasy kitchen sink they feel like throwing us into today.

While I appreciate the more high fantasy side of things myself, a lot of people seem to be looking to the more modern outfits. I don't know what research is guiding their decisions on glamour gear, but it's going over well whether I like it or not.

Ultimately, if SE had any intention of protecting us from immersion-breaking glamour then they'd stop putting in things like the Namazu and bunny outfits.

Why bother setting up a glamour when the only one who sees it is yourself.

To be fair, glamour isn't just about dressing up for others. It's also about creating it for myself. But - like picking clothes in real life - any outfit I've put together for my character will be based on the two important questions (a) do I like how this looks? and (b) am I happy to wear this in public?

Sometimes I do make glamours that don't fit that rule. There are some that I've put together and taken arty screenshots of, but wouldn't wear in a town or dungeon. (To be clear, things like a White Rabbit costume that looked great in the specific pictures I took but stood out cartoonishly anywhere else, or a set of themed glamours I'm working on that will need some of my characters in elaborate robes they wouldn't normally wear.)

Much like in real life, as a cosplayer, I'll wear a costume at a convention but feel dreadfully silly if I have to wear it while getting there on the train, and certainly wouldn't wear the outfit "as myself". And still I pick costume choices based on my own taste in clothing - though at least with the choice to add tights under skirts if I want.

So yeah. On the one hand yes, glamours are "for me", but that doesn't mean I don't care about how my character is presented to others. The two things are intrinsically linked.


Edit to add: I have just as much fun dressing up characters in single-player games, on the rare occasion that they have complex customisation options like this one.

[Shougun]

I do agree with this. If there was going to be any sort of "style restriction" to prevent immersion breaking then it should have been implemented globally from the start with stricter rules about gear design styles. Keep everyone on the same page and in control of their own character, just be more selective about the choices that players are presented with. But that's a horse that has long since bolted.

That said, an "FF vibe" can be anything from high fantasy to modern to sci-fi to whatever part of the fantasy kitchen sink they feel like throwing us into today.

While I appreciate the more high fantasy side of things myself, a lot of people seem to be looking to the more modern outfits. I don't know what research is guiding their decisions on glamour gear, but it's going over well whether I like it or not.

Ultimately, if SE had any intention of protecting us from immersion-breaking glamour then they'd stop putting in things like the Namazu and bunny outfits.

Indeed there is a huge variety to the visuals of FF, but if we take any FF as a single unit they clearly have a visual code- even FFX-2 which would be their most 'lewd' lol (but I'd not want that art direction, just saying it has a code). I have a strong feeling whoever is making the mascots is not the same person who is ensuring the story is taken seriously (that isn't to say they're fighting), such that whoever is working on the story would not put Minfilla into a Namazu or Casino girl costume UNLESS it was explicitly for the purpose of telling the story of wearing that costume. Or in other words they'd have some reason why they did it, it just wouldn't be because it could be- it would be because it needed to be.

That if you told the person who was making the content to direct the entire story that they'd not be putting people into outfits that don't fit the vibe of the environment they're telling, and that's regardless of which game you pick- that there is a code and strong purpose to having a visual flow (which can be Saints Row, or it can be Lord of the Rings- huge variety, but the direction of art isn't willy nilly / not important (unless that's the intended feeling they want you to take away)). Obviously I mentioned it before but I wanted to add even in the MSQ of this own game they have a visual style, it's just sequestered from the characters who can clearly take a giant hatchet to it if they so choose (which would be awesome if it was an sRPG, because it would be at your choice, your option to do so, but it kind of sucks when someone else hatchets your visual style that, clearly, the person who made the story had set up- and I'm going to call great halls of Thal if anyone suggested that SE doesn't care about how they present their story lol).

I agree it's waaaaaay easier to address this stuff from the beginning, so I hope next time the art director and quest directors, just everyone lol, talk about how they are setting their mood just like if they were making an sRPG- and do something like that. Even sometimes SE, usually through Yoshida, talks about the MSQ as if you could view it as a true to form FF rpg (just like our sRPGs, play it for the story sort of comments), so I don't feel like I'm being obtuse or overly strange asking SE to get everyone hands on deck to produce the best visual experience they can when telling their stories.

Which, I know might sound like I'm saying no sexy or no goofy, never, ever, but I'd like to remind when I say FF vibe I'm thinking Tidus, Lulu, Yuffie, Tifa, Wakka, Zidane, Echo, Garnet, Quistis, Lightning, Rikku, etc, etc. In short dedicated spurts (doesn't pervade the entire game), they even have more fun with like Chocolina or Cloud's dress up. Which is a huge variety, some a revealing, some goofy. This is why I actually said perhaps they go into armor classes and then use very rarely the job specific restrictions (well and weapons if we're weapons based job system, which might not be a thing in the next game).

With the only exception that I think FFX-2 was too much too often (as an imo, not as an insult to the game)- so I want to be clear and say I'm not saying that one (pick any FF vibe but that one lol), I played it long ago but just never cared to finish it because I had really enjoyed the world of FFX and this, especially after FFX, felt like a strong departure in tone and that I accidentally purchased some ecchi game lol. Might also had to do with the fact I was still in highschool when I rented that from a hollywood video, which also meant playing it on the big screen with my parents walking by and I just felt like it would have been easier to tell them I was watching adult content. To be clear that's not a "those games shouldn't exist", or that sexy content shouldn't exist- like Shiva or whichever enemies sometimes got the lewd treatment lol, that's fine, boobs and male thigh don't scare me, I just don't want to have it 24/7- that's the desert not my main course lol. Also few probably remember like 8 years ago but my opinion has shifted from then if anyone does, wanted to note that (I was more against the glamour system, I think in my head I was still picturing some hardcore realistic FF game, having seen how much content glamour brings- that was a silly position, though I still strongly believe in visual narrative). So in X-2's case they do actually have a visual narrative/code, It was just way too pervasive with it's particular style for my tastes (that's an opinion, , I'm sure some loved it)- and also the attitude, outside of the visuals wasn't really my style, everywhere you turned was like young highschool girl lens meets a lewd filter. The game didn't hide it either though, it didn't try to pull a fast one on anyone, so I don't say it begrudgingly either- the game has a right to exist, I'm not morally crusading it (from the trailer I already had a feeling it wouldn't be to my style, but I got it anyways because I thought FFX was very fun), it was fair and honest on what it would be like and it just happened to not be the sequel I was looking for (but that's fine, it didn't even try to act like it would be that- I was hoping against the obvious).

So it's kind of expected that my response would have been such, I just don't really look for young girl (or boy) emotions + pervasively lewd art direction (using young people has to be done really well; otherwise, I just feel like they're whiny or immature- "world is on fire NAAeeeEEEEeeee *peacuuu signnn*. Like when I watch Vanille or Hope in FFXIII in English at least and I just want them to get like Aerith and leave XD.. sometimes Snow too but I think I was just having an issue connecting to too many characters to it started a chain reaction lol. The English voice actors voice didn't seem to be the problem, as much of it was the content / mannerism was just annoying, for me, and generally disliked any scene that had them in it. To fair maybe the mannerisms felt better in Japanese, since there is a sort of cultural norm in how people act/talk that might feel less weird in another language (like skinship in Korean culture- watching it in the drama doesn't really set off any unusual flags, but you touch my leg here as either gender and I'm like "u wot??"), so in English I was disconnected and disinterested in them with a pinch cringe (other elements could have have an effect on disliking many characters too, like the corridors after corridors being draining, which left less acceptance/patience for the characters as the feeling of "get me out of this tunnel" grows). Sazh, Lightning, and Oerba ended up being my mains.

Anyway, just wanted to hopefully increase eye to eye in this thread lol. I've seen the increased computer stability as an interesting reason I've not thought about before, but wanted to describe that even under SE's own visual story telling it can be argued that having too wild of a glamour system can damage the visual narrative and that SE shows this by the fact they only use these particular outfits when it explicitly makes sense to (like if they took our main character nps to the beach or something). Not saying I'll get people to convert, but at least wanted increase the amount of people who think the idea is not evil or even if someone disagrees isn't wrought from something entirely illogical (SE clearly has visual codes in each of their games, even if they're not necessarily "realistic"- and to be honest the vibe of FF, the visual, musical, lore that influences design, classics like chocobo, moogle, jobs, these things make up more than half the reason why I play them, so it's pretty important to me that they 'direct and respect' their visuals by utilizing them as best they can to create the desired environmental experience and directives). Whoever is part of the setting team (art, music, lore directors) I want to give a big thumbs up in these games but also say your job is insanely important, at least to me (gameplay is important of course, ideally everything is perfect right? lol, but I don't feel the gameplay makes a FF game- you can tell a FF game just by looking at screenshots or hearing the music, you don't even need to play it to know, it's the world that says it's a FF game or not).

Not saying you said everyone was silly, and I know why you're not really for a toggle (but it seems like you wouldn't be bothered if from the start they had certain restrictions), but the people I respond to I respond to because I think we're actually going to have a discussion or at least a nice handshake (so high five-sy lol), only rarely do I respond because it's like "no that's wrong and it needs to be said because you're misleading people".. which is usually because I feel misrepresented (like being told I said something I didn't say, and I can prove it), I can count those posts on one hand, even with my 7k post count xD. I assume you'll still be against but just thought we might shake hands and see each other, and I believe even if SE doesn't do something for this game that they might think about it next time. It's a neat system surely, so hopefully they'll pay it more mind, more features, more thought on consequences and benefits, try to make it breath their style within the player's hands (which will sometimes still fail no matter, but I think worth sitting down at the table and discussing- since I think visual narrative / 'presentation' really is a thing SE does well and under normal story circumstances takes very seriously, so I'm just asking they do that in general).

I'll let other people argue about other parts of the concepts, mostly just want to shore up that the idea of being concerned about visual narrative doesn't have to be anything negative or to help make examples (like immersion doesn't strictly relate to realistic, in FFX-2 if you accept the design premise then it'll be immersive, if you had however FFX and at the last 10% of FFX they suddenly changed the art rules to FFX-2 it could be immersion breaking, or worse if you went to like Witcher 3 graphics or something- that'd be super jarring lol).