It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Vahlnir]

Lets get to the option to turn everyone to Lyse. Everyone all the time.

I don't need my WoL being less intelligent than he already is.

[Awha]

No you can't "just assume that everyone is seeing them how they want to be seen". It creates the opposite effect. You can never be certain how people are seeing you.

And as I said so many times, it's not about demanding to be admired in my outfit. It's about not being shown in something I don't want to be seen in.

This thread just feels like a thousand exhausting cycles of the same argument with the same misrepresentations at every turn of why someone might not want people to be able to do this to their character, whether or not the effect is fed back to the player, and I am so very tired of trying to explain again to the same few people.

I don't want to "be seen" and focused on, I just don't want to be misrepresented.

Misrepresented in what sense? If the game has no marker for the feature within the mind of the person they should be represented in the way they desire. This becomes an issue if the person in question assumes that many would use the feature. So boils down the same situation but on the different foot. Since many have told people that want this feature added they say just ignore it, suck it up etc . . . can the same not be said for those who do not want this feature if were to magically be added? (I highly doubt it would be added)

Cause even now players could be using mods that misrepresent someone, but is it because that is not so wide spread that people do not complain much on the forums about the fear of possibility being misrepresented? Like I for example understand how my glam choices might trigger someone, and have been asked if I could change for the sake of the cut scene. I told them no, I do understand but by no means would I change myself, but if this feature was a thing a person would not even have to worry about if they ask and someone ignores their request. They toggle it and life goes on. At that point I would say my lack of representation is a net positive for that player, and in practice has no real impact on myself unless I personally let it. I get to a degree what you are saying since I believe you were the person that mentioned they take time and care into their character to be seen a certain way. I get it in you put someone in a pants, I get you would not want to see them in a dress. Though call me crazy but I kind of fail to understand what is the importance in turning down a hypothetical feature that could improve the general play experience at the simple cost of others not seeing your character in your desired attire?

Seems odd to me that is all. Do not get be wrong I do think the world should welcome with open arms every Male Roe in a weeding dress, or fishnets. Since that sight alone is well worth the sub and price of entry into the game, and for the life of me I do not understand why anyone would have a problem with such a wonderful sight. Though for whatever reason some people have differing tastes, is it so wrong to make it so those with differing tastes do not have to make the choice to either suck it up, leave the group, try to ignore it, or turn off the game? This hypothetical feature would sort of allow more people in theory to enjoy the game. Sure those that are annoyed by peoples glam is prob smaller subset of players then those that enjoy BLM and Eureka, but should we just brush off their views and concerns because we feel that within the game world our form of self expression trumps theirs?

Do not get me wrong in a IRL context I can see the problem with having glasses that allows you to change how someone looks, though me personally would not care either way. This is a game world though, at certain points I think it is fine to allowing differing views a means to thrive, within reason of course.

[Canada_bangs]

I don't need my WoL being less intelligent than he already is.

Those booty shorts though man. Like... SE teases me so. And to be fair to Lyse... she wasn't stupid. She was just trying to do a job way above her paygrade. But it was a coming of age arc for her, it was written poorly but thats what it was suppose to be. Yes I'm a lyse fan, yes I love her outfit. ( The jacket one) Yes I spent the last reply defending her. fight me. :O

[Shougun]

No you can't "just assume that everyone is seeing them how they want to be seen". It creates the opposite effect. You can never be certain how people are seeing you.

And as I said so many times, it's not about demanding to be admired in my outfit. It's about not being shown in something I don't want to be seen in.

This thread just feels like a thousand exhausting cycles of the same argument with the same misrepresentations at every turn of why someone might not want people to be able to do this to their character, whether or not the effect is fed back to the player, and I am so very tired of trying to explain again to the same few people.

I don't want to "be seen" and focused on, I just don't want to be misrepresented.

This would be part of the reason why I think it would have been nice if they had created a glamour system that consistently articulated a FF vibe, like less restrictions on most pieces of gear (probably something to do with weight classes and then AF/job specific being used for only the iconic imagery)- if SE was making a single player RPG they would not lock a character down in a clown outfit (funny/comedic relief segments or 'options' not counted). I would have liked that approach to combat glamour, you can still bikini or chocobo mascot just not in someone's finale dungeon.

Of course turning the whole system on and off could function too, but I honestly don't mind 98%u0025 of glamour's and the other 2% is because it damages the visual narrative. When I'm goofing off the 2% don't even bother me; usually kind of cute then, because goofy outfits fit when I'm not trying to immerse (don't read as realism) and not when the game is doing something serious while the visuals (due to one player) is doing something entirely 180. So certainly if it was a feature I would probably just turn off glamours when it's the first time I did story content and then turn them back on until new content. Although I understand how it might feel nice to not have the way you view yourself be 180 from others, especially if you took time in trying to present yourself.

Not sure what to hope for in this current game, since I think taking away options tends to feel quite bad, except maybe that I hope I don't get grouped with festive/joke gear when trying to get into the story for the first time (after that I've no care, send all the pink oily bikini men and women my way- it matters not once I've locked in the experience the game was trying to deliver to me). I hope in their next mmo though that they spend some time on the system, giving it a lot of thought- making it a larger content piece (like the log itself being more comprehensive too) but also attempting to preserve the serious 'FF image' and portrayal (still have mascots and bikini gear, just keeping it to the social side- out of MSQ). Which isn't even zero % skimpy or playful- FF tells a visual story through their characters very well, sRPGs at least, it just isn't usually hyper-realism- like Lulu lol, so mainly just not snowmen and clearly summer small beach ready bikinis which I'd argue they would know better than to do in their sRPG unless it was for the purpose of comedic relief (is to say I hope they try to capture their style as best they can in their mmo systems).

Although if they tried to make a very grounded and dark or realistic world setting, so a lot less whimsy, might suggest they avoid the silly stuff in general, but I've a feeling that's unlikely. Alternatively they could go full whimsy and which case no rules at all lol (personally would prefer the middle ground or darker side though, I like whimsical moments but not the entire game to express 'lulzz').

[Rasler_Heios]

No one would know if others have the feature on or not unless they're going around telling everyone. That way people can just assume that everyone is seeing them how they want to be seen. This also comes back to the point of is it really so important that others absolutely HAVE to see your glamours?

No, it is not important that other players HAVE to see another player's glamour, nobody should be forced to look at other players just to check how they look. This is more that if at the point somebody is looking at you, they will see you the way you want to be seen. Why bother setting up a glamour when the only one who sees it is yourself.

[Iscah]

Misrepresented in what sense? If the game has no marker for the feature within the mind of the person they should be represented in the way they desire. This becomes an issue if the person in question assumes that many would use the feature. So boils down the same situation but on the different foot. Since many have told people that want this feature added they say just ignore it, suck it up etc . . . can the same not be said for those who do not want this feature if were to magically be added? (I highly doubt it would be added)

I don't like miniskirts. I choose to put my character in long skirts or pants. I do not want that choice undone.

It's not about whether it's "many" or "few" people doing it. It's that the option would be there and I do not want it to be there.

I'm aware that there are mods and I am already uncomfortable about those, but it's a different thing again if it were officially sanctioned by the game. In the current system the precedent is for a shared world where (as designed by the programmers) each person has full control of how their own character is presented. Some people might hack and break the system to change that, but it's not actually allowed or supported as within the intended spirit of the game. Sanctioning it as an official setting would create a very different precedent.

At a global level, having the option or not creates two different visions of how the game functions as a shared space: one values everyone having individual control of how they express themselves, with the expectation that if you don't like how someone looks then you have to tolerate it regardless. The other arguably improves the single-player experience at the cost of treating other players as "decoration" rather than real people, free to be altered to suit your own taste.

If a game is going to set a precedent for giving one player control over another's appearance, then it needs to be there from the start. It would be a fundamental shift in the game's philosophy to change it after the fact.

[Krotoan]

If a game is going to set a precedent for giving one player control over another's appearance, then it needs to be there from the start. It would be a fundamental shift in the game's philosophy to change it after the fact.

When the game released you had no control over your own appearance beyond what you could wear. When the game released MOST of the options for armor didn't exist. When the game released the most "skimpy" it got was some deep cleavage and some thighs unless you wanted to go naked, then you got a very functional set of underclothes.

Games change. Fundamentally the GAME is the same (in reference to 2.0 and above) , option or no. Your personal values of presenting as presented aren't a fundamental value or philosophy so much as an incidental effect of the technology and design decisions at the time.

[Driavna]

If a game is going to set a precedent for giving one player control over another's appearance, then it needs to be there from the start. It would be a fundamental shift in the game's philosophy to change it after the fact.

Final Fantasy 14 has changed and evolved during its life spawn. ARR was a very different game compared to the current expansion, glamour wasn't even a thing until 2.2 patch.

[Awha]

I don't like miniskirts. I choose to put my character in long skirts or pants. I do not want that choice undone.

It's not about whether it's "many" or "few" people doing it. It's that the option would be there and I do not want it to be there.

I'm aware that there are mods and I am already uncomfortable about those, but it's a different thing again if it were officially sanctioned by the game. In the current system the precedent is for a shared world where (as designed by the programmers) each person has full control of how their own character is presented. Some people might hack and break the system to change that, but it's not actually allowed or supported as within the intended spirit of the game. Sanctioning it as an official setting would create a very different precedent.

At a global level, having the option or not creates two different visions of how the game functions as a shared space: one values everyone having individual control of how they express themselves, with the expectation that if you don't like how someone looks then you have to tolerate it regardless. The other arguably improves the single-player experience at the cost of treating other players as "decoration" rather than real people, free to be altered to suit your own taste.

If a game is going to set a precedent for giving one player control over another's appearance, then it needs to be there from the start. It would be a fundamental shift in the game's philosophy to change it after the fact.

The game direction or vision can change. The male bunny suit, wedding dress, personal housing are signs of a change in vision or direction.

As mentioned in other threads I fail to understand how the self expression is being hampered in any meaningful way. Though clearly s divide between us exist in how we define or view self expression.

So Leaving thosd points aside since that is a difference that will not be bridged due to how we seem to view self expression. Though your last point seems to largely boils down to well it was not part of the game from the start so ut it would not be fair or right to add it now? Can we say that is the case with any suggestion or request?

Overall I am slightly confused since overall it seems like one form of expression is valid and it is not fair to alter ur because it has been the way things have always been within the game. Though isn't that part of the wonder of games norms can be altered and changed? Why must one side simply tolerate what makes them feel uncomfortable but the other does not because that is the way the game has always been?

[Iscah]

So Leaving thosd points aside since that is a difference that will not be bridged due to how we seem to view self expression. Though your last point seems to largely boils down to well it was not part of the game from the start so ut it would not be fair or right to add it now? Can we say that is the case with any suggestion or request?

No, that's not my point. It's not "an argument you could make with any suggestion" because other suggestions are not about altering the degree of control a person has over their own character. Adding a new job or race or game mode does nothing at all to your character if you don't want to engage with it. Adding new costumes does not require you to wear them. Other people will, and that's their business.