Which jobs is at its prime?

[Seraphor]

Then I guess my question is: How much of the player share is required for a job to be 'at it's prime'?
33%? 50%?
Is it a mutually exclusive state which means only one job of any role is ever currently 'at it's prime', and that's the most played job?
And if the player share of a job is proportional to it's dps in a raid setting, does that mean 'prime' is proportional to dps output?

Or, is 'at it's prime' a condition that's entirely isolated to the job in question, and does not factor in the situation of any other jobs?
Surely 'at it's prime' relates to the functionality of the job, it's ease of skill use, rotation flow, utility/performance, and job identity, all being adequately fulfilled.

[SpeckledBurd]

Then I guess my question is: How much of the player share is required for a job to be 'at it's prime'?
33%? 50%?
Is it a mutually exclusive state which means only one job of any role is ever currently 'at it's prime', and that's the most played job?
And if the player share of a job is proportional to it's dps in a raid setting, does that mean 'prime' is proportional to dps output?

Or, is 'at it's prime' a condition that's entirely isolated to the job in question, and does not factor in the situation of any other jobs?
Surely 'at it's prime' relates to the functionality of the job, it's ease of skill use, rotation flow, utility/performance, and job identity, all being adequately fulfilled.

Acting like meta position has anything to do with a job being "in its prime" is ridiculous, because that would suggest that Monk on Shadowbringers launch was "in its prime". That was historically Monk being stronger than it's ever been, but Shadowbringers is Monk's design at its historical worst.

[ForteNightshade]

Then I guess my question is: How much of the player share is required for a job to be 'at it's prime'?
33%? 50%?
Is it a mutually exclusive state which means only one job of any role is ever currently 'at it's prime', and that's the most played job?
And if the player share of a job is proportional to it's dps in a raid setting, does that mean 'prime' is proportional to dps output?

Or, is 'at it's prime' a condition that's entirely isolated to the job in question, and does not factor in the situation of any other jobs?
Surely 'at it's prime' relates to the functionality of the job, it's ease of skill use, rotation flow, utility/performance, and job identity, all being adequately fulfilled.

I think everything should be factored. Think of this way, a job could be perfectly designed in its rotation and ease of use but if the other jobs in said role offer more. It's all rendered pointless since people aren't going to care from a balance perspective. Dismissing the meta entirely seems silly when content below EX and Savage are so poorly undertuned, it really doesn't matter. With that said, focusing exclusively on their meta position is equally flawed for the precise reason SpeckledBurd pointed out. Monk was technically strong in 5.05 meta wise, albeit largely because Ninja and Samurai were in such a bad state. Regardless, it's actually gameplay was atrocious.

I guess a better way to put it, at least, in my opinion, it sort of a review where each category weighs into the overhaul average.

[reyre]

I think everything should be factored. Think of this way, a job could be perfectly designed in its rotation and ease of use but if the other jobs in said role offer more. It's all rendered pointless since people aren't going to care from a balance perspective. Dismissing the meta entirely seems silly when content below EX and Savage are so poorly undertuned, it really doesn't matter. With that said, focusing exclusively on their meta position is equally flawed for the precise reason SpeckledBurd pointed out. Monk was technically strong in 5.05 meta wise, albeit largely because Ninja and Samurai were in such a bad state. Regardless, it's actually gameplay was atrocious.

I guess a better way to put it, at least, in my opinion, it sort of a review where each category weighs into the overhaul average.

This actually is been a question of mine, how does the FF14 dev team balance jobs out?

[ForteNightshade]

This actually is been a question of mine, how does the FF14 dev team balance jobs out?

A good question. And sadly one none of us know. Their balancing decisions seem entirely baffling at times, which leads me to believe they're too broad in their approach. Perhaps the single best example of this misstep is Piercing. They never once accounted for the impact it had on Bard and Machinist despite Bard's overwhelming dominance from 3.4 to 5.0. Likewise, it's clear they put greater stock into things the playerbase doesn't. Verraise and Vercure are seen as staple utility to Red Mage's kit yet you'll be hard pressed to find good Red Mage players who even want to look at either abilities, especially Vercure. Healers are hit by that mentality worse than others since the dev team still seems to believe we focus on healing when even Savage simply doesn't necessitate enough to justify the sheer abundance at each Healer's disposal.

All in all, there exists a very sizable disconnect between how the dev teams believe we play/should play and how we actually do. Part of that can be attributed to prevalence of FFlogs since it's the main reason no one cares about things like Vercure. But you really can't fault the playerbase for being so damage focused when content encourages very little else.

[reyre]

A good question. And sadly one none of us know. Their balancing decisions seem entirely baffling at times, which leads me to believe they're too broad in their approach. Perhaps the single best example of this misstep is Piercing. They never once accounted for the impact it had on Bard and Machinist despite Bard's overwhelming dominance from 3.4 to 5.0. Likewise, it's clear they put greater stock into things the playerbase doesn't. Verraise and Vercure are seen as staple utility to Red Mage's kit yet you'll be hard pressed to find good Red Mage players who even want to look at either abilities, especially Vercure. Healers are hit by that mentality worse than others since the dev team still seems to believe we focus on healing when even Savage simply doesn't necessitate enough to justify the sheer abundance at each Healer's disposal.

All in all, there exists a very sizable disconnect between how the dev teams believe we play/should play and how we actually do. Part of that can be attributed to prevalence of FFlogs since it's the main reason no one cares about things like Vercure. But you really can't fault the playerbase for being so damage focused when content encourages very little else.

Then i have another question, where do the devs get their feedback? Im assuming here that its actually true that they actually take palyer feedback into account but, at the very least from a MNK perspective, it seems that they dont or at the very least they dont seem to take feedback from the official forums too much.

[ForteNightshade]

Then i have another question, where do the devs get their feedback? Im assuming here that its actually true that they actually take palyer feedback into account but, at the very least from a MNK perspective, it seems that they dont or at the very least they dont seem to take feedback from the official forums too much.

Once again, we can only speculate. They do poke around reddit but I tend to think they mostly stick to their own ideas and only listen to feedback if it fits into their existing design philosophy. Monk is a really stand out in this regard because they've clung to its core design for years despite increasingly negative feedback. Meanwhile, I can't recall a single complaint here or on reddit about Astro's cards yet that got such a massive overhaul. So that's what leads me to think they mostly follow their own ideas.

[reyre]

Once again, we can only speculate. They do poke around reddit but I tend to think they mostly stick to their own ideas and only listen to feedback if it fits into their existing design philosophy. Monk is a really stand out in this regard because they've clung to its core design for years despite increasingly negative feedback. Meanwhile, I can't recall a single complaint here or on reddit about Astro's cards yet that got such a massive overhaul. So that's what leads me to think they mostly follow their own ideas.

So wait you are telling me that in essence the player base is completely in the dark about the battle jobs, which are the vast majority of content users, and the player has no idea if some, all or none of their complains, praise or sugestions actually matter at all, is just what FF14 dev wants and that is the end of it? So the whole "we are listening to our player base" is a bunch of BS, then what is the point of official forums and the like, what a waste of resources.

[Rai_Takara]

All three ranged are under powered. It needs fixing ASAP. End of

If we want us ranged to do more damage, our jobs need to be more complex and we need positionals of some sort. Whether it be cast bars for certain skills or potency depending on distance to target, we need something to optimize around. Otherwise our role is just too simple to warrant more DPS than being there for the 1% buff.

Once again, we can only speculate. They do poke around reddit but I tend to think they mostly stick to their own ideas and only listen to feedback if it fits into their existing design philosophy. Monk is a really stand out in this regard because they've clung to its core design for years despite increasingly negative feedback. Meanwhile, I can't recall a single complaint here or on reddit about Astro's cards yet that got such a massive overhaul. So that's what leads me to think they mostly follow their own ideas.

AST cards were definitely them finally listening to the top end raid community. As an AST back then, it was really due for a rework because of the nature of DPS buffs. While the method they choose isn't ideal or one I would have guessed, the current iteration is a lot better than the previous one for us.

Overall this expansion, I think they are definitely listening to us top end folks. Maybe they have a better source now? I've noticed a lot of JP top end raiders making an appearance so maybe they were able to setup some kind of communication with the devs. For example, LB cheesing existed since the game's inception and yet it was only fixed when JP speed runners pointed it out to the dev team.