Which jobs is at its prime?

[Mhaeric]

No, the point is OP ask what jobs in its prime, not what job is having the highest DPD and RDM is definately on its Prime based on how low they complain they are having atm and even satisfaction poll on several site (not official so i say not that reliable).

Just ignore them. 90% of their posts are putting people down, and the other 10% are complaining that RDM is too simple and/or not valued in raids.

[Katie_Kitty]

Just ignore them. 90% of their posts are putting people down, and the other 10% are complaining that RDM is too simple and/or not valued in raids.

In the future, I will be sure to only make posts that are in agreement with the views expressed by the normal raid hero Mhaeric Llystrom.

No, the point is OP ask what jobs in its prime, not what job is having the highest DPD and RDM is definately on its Prime based on how low they complain they are having atm and even satisfaction poll on several site (not official so i say not that reliable).

And my point is that it's sad commentary on the state of job balance when a job's "prime" is still woefully inadequate. And it's sad that so many fail to see it. You're welcome to disagree, but that won't stop me from adding in my 2 cents. Public forum and all.

[Seraphor]

And my point is that it's sad commentary on the state of job balance when a job's "prime" is still woefully inadequate. And it's sad that so many fail to see it. You're welcome to disagree, but that won't stop me from adding in my 2 cents. Public forum and all.

So do you think all DPS jobs should deal exactly the same damage?

Btw, I've cleared savage as RDM without any issues.

Seems like the issue is "the meta" and all you're doing is adding to the problem.

[Katie_Kitty]

So do you think all DPS jobs should deal exactly the same damage?

As I said in another post, an arms race isn't necessarily the answer to every question, but differences in total rDPS from one job to the next should be minimal. I'm more than comfortable with a (reasonable, minimal) raise tax, for example. Part of the problem is that there shouldn't be a direct competitor job that is capable of raising while not suffering said tax. I don't really consider BLM a problem, but Summoner on the other hand is a plague on caster balance that needs to be addressed one way or another. My preferred solution (which I've stated multiple times) is to remove Summoner's ability to use a rez in combat. Then it can compete directly with BLM and RDM can settle into its role as the (somewhat, not too much) weaker alternative with great utility.

With that said, yes, the goal should be to have every DPS job do somewhat similar amounts of rDPS. This is a strict holy trinity MMO that loves to lean on hard enrage mechanics and therefore damage is king. Differences are fine, but balance means groups should be comfortable working with any job from each of the roles.

Seems like the issue is "the meta" and all you're doing is adding to the problem.

We can rail against "the meta" all we want but I tend to prefer living in reality and addressing it head-on. I don't really agree with your assertion that simply acknowledging issues in job balance is contributing to the problem. I play, and have played for some time, a job which has long been mocked or ignored. I'm not advocating for its exclusion on the basis of meta - What I'm doing is advocating for change. I'm saying that "better than before" does not necessarily equal "good enough."

Btw, I've cleared savage as RDM without any issues.

Honestly not really relevant here. Of course you can clear savage as RDM - That's not the issue.

[ReiMakoto]

So do you think all DPS jobs should deal exactly the same damage?

Btw, I've cleared savage as RDM without any issues.

Seems like the issue is "the meta" and all you're doing is adding to the problem.

Clearing earlier floors after having so long to gear up isnt an issue for any class, even some of the later ones after gearing can be fine if you get hard carried, so saying "I cleared savage" doesnt really add anything, I did final omega back in the day on my undergeared red mage and got hard carried so dps check wasnt an issue, that doesnt make rdm any more or less in need of attention

[Wyakin]

So to answer the OPs post as best as I can form an opinion.
Tanks: decently balanced, best they've ever been
Healers: 5.0 they were decently balanced but as time goes on ASt will become over powered due to % based cards yielding higher and higher DPS. from a healing side, all three are viable
Mages: BLM is in a good place, SMN is over powered and RDM is ok
Melee: imo all four melee are ok, in a good place. but as with AST, NIN will become more and more over powered as the iLevel increases due to % based buffs (trick)
Ranged:BRD is in the gutter. And all three ranged imo are under tuned. not by much (maybe 250-500 DPS) but enough for me to rant for hours if needed. not gonna write it here, save it for another time.

[ForteNightshade]

No, the point is OP ask what jobs in its prime, not what job is having the highest DPD and RDM is definately on its Prime based on how low they complain they are having atm and even satisfaction poll on several site (not official so i say not that reliable).

A job cannot be "at its prime" while still being the least played Caster in end game content. Now that isn't inherently Red Mage's fault. Summoner is grossly overtuned but that still impacts Red Mage's status. For comparison sake, Samurai was pretty much loved in Stormblood. Too bad the existence of Piercing and how much people focused on pDPS meant no one cared. You aren't a Dragoon or Ninja.

So do you think all DPS jobs should deal exactly the same damage?

Btw, I've cleared savage as RDM without any issues.

Seems like the issue is "the meta" and all you're doing is adding to the problem.

The difference should be close to negligible, yes. As it currently stands, Red Mage is objectively inferior to Summoner is nearly every way. At best, you could argue Red Mage is easier to learn but that's hardly a trade off when none of the jobs are overly difficult. Some simply demand more practice. No one job, especially not in the same role, should beat its competition at everything.

None of this is to say Red Mage isn't viable. Viability and balance are not inherently the same though. Bard is visible. It's also laughably worse than every other DPS in the game.

[Seraphor]

Then I guess my question is: How much of the player share is required for a job to be 'at it's prime'?
33%? 50%?
Is it a mutually exclusive state which means only one job of any role is ever currently 'at it's prime', and that's the most played job?
And if the player share of a job is proportional to it's dps in a raid setting, does that mean 'prime' is proportional to dps output?

Or, is 'at it's prime' a condition that's entirely isolated to the job in question, and does not factor in the situation of any other jobs?
Surely 'at it's prime' relates to the functionality of the job, it's ease of skill use, rotation flow, utility/performance, and job identity, all being adequately fulfilled.

[SpeckledBurd]

Then I guess my question is: How much of the player share is required for a job to be 'at it's prime'?
33%? 50%?
Is it a mutually exclusive state which means only one job of any role is ever currently 'at it's prime', and that's the most played job?
And if the player share of a job is proportional to it's dps in a raid setting, does that mean 'prime' is proportional to dps output?

Or, is 'at it's prime' a condition that's entirely isolated to the job in question, and does not factor in the situation of any other jobs?
Surely 'at it's prime' relates to the functionality of the job, it's ease of skill use, rotation flow, utility/performance, and job identity, all being adequately fulfilled.

Acting like meta position has anything to do with a job being "in its prime" is ridiculous, because that would suggest that Monk on Shadowbringers launch was "in its prime". That was historically Monk being stronger than it's ever been, but Shadowbringers is Monk's design at its historical worst.

[Miminming]

A job cannot be "at its prime" while still being the least played Caster in end game content. Now that isn't inherently Red Mage's fault. Summoner is grossly overtuned but that still impacts Red Mage's status. For comparison sake, Samurai was pretty much loved in Stormblood. Too bad the existence of Piercing and how much people focused on pDPS meant no one cared. You aren't a Dragoon or Ninja.



The difference should be close to negligible, yes. As it currently stands, Red Mage is objectively inferior to Summoner is nearly every way. At best, you could argue Red Mage is easier to learn but that's hardly a trade off when none of the jobs are overly difficult. Some simply demand more practice. No one job, especially not in the same role, should beat its competition at everything.

None of this is to say Red Mage isn't viable. Viability and balance are not inherently the same though. Bard is visible. It's also laughably worse than every other DPS in the game.

No end game content in this game of not even played by half of the player, you cannot jugde what is at its prime by nitpicking end game player oppinion only, why? Because that's called meta not prime, there like far more RDM in the wild than you think, the OP could easily ask for meta if he want to hear the meta.