Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Veis_Alveare]

What is "fear mongering" about it? Saying that there's the potential for consequences of actively engaging in that kind of behavior is somehow "fearmongering". Would telling you not to speed in traffic because you might get a speeding ticket be considered fear mongering as well?

It should be plainly obvious. Cause and effect. It shouldn't have to be brought up and debated with every agonizing minute detail; but if people have apparently forgotten there's a thing called consequences, it makes me wonder if people unironically scratch their head dumbfounded when they get banned for 3rd party stuff that violates TOS.

If anything, it's a reminder.

It's fear mongering because you're saying people can get pulled into GM jail for something that they can't be held accountable for.

I mean ffs you're doing it again here; no one can be banned for the use of third party tools unless they're dumb enough to talk about it in chat. SE has no one to scan your PC for that sort of thing nor will they in the future for a plethora of reasons, not the least of which would be varying privacy laws around the world.

I could rescue you to your death repeatedly and as long as I don't say anything in chat about it the culture of never holding anyone accountable would mean you can't get me in trouble for it because maybe I just don't know any better. It's ironic cause you guys reinforced that idea that no one "pays your sub" and now you don't pay mine so I guess enjoy me playing mini golf with you during Suzaku since I'm sure that's why theres a hole in the middle of the platform.

[Avidria]

It's fear mongering because you're saying people can get pulled into GM jail for something that they can't be held accountable for.

I mean ffs you're doing it again here; no one can be banned for the use of third party tools unless they're dumb enough to talk about it in chat. SE has no one to scan your PC for that sort of thing nor will they in the future for a plethora of reasons, not the least of which would be varying privacy laws around the world.

I could rescue you to your death repeatedly and as long as I don't say anything in chat about it the culture of never holding anyone accountable would mean you can't get me in trouble for it because maybe I just don't know any better. It's ironic cause you guys reinforced that idea that no one "pays your sub" and now you don't pay mine so I guess enjoy me playing mini golf with you during Suzaku since I'm sure that's why theres a hole in the middle of the platform.

If that kind of harassment isn't something actionable then that's a yikes on the GMs imo... I struggle to believe any rational person wouldn't consider that a form of griefing, or at the very least obstruction of gameplay.
Unless the assumption is that everyone is an idiot, no one is griefing unless they admit to it, and chat logs are the only valid proof ever. Which is also a yikes.

[ForteNightshade]

If that kind of harassment isn't something actionable then that's a yikes on the GMs imo... I struggle to believe any rational person wouldn't consider that a form of griefing, or at the very least obstruction of gameplay.
Unless the assumption is that everyone is an idiot, no one is griefing unless they admit to it, and chat logs are the only valid proof ever. Which is also a yikes.

She's partially correct. The GMs will typically lean on giving the benefit of doubt whenever plausible. But if you're particularly blatant with Rescue spam, you will get in trouble for it.

[Veis_Alveare]

Unless the assumption is that everyone is an idiot, no one is griefing unless they admit to it, and chat logs are the only valid proof ever. Which is also a yikes.

That's just the point- the assumption is we are all bumbling idiots with no idea what we're doing. Making a "mistake" that leads to someone else's death is always acceptable, about the only way that isn't the case is if you can prove it was deliberate as Forte explains. Sure, if you're literally rescuing someone through the hole on Suzaku every time Rescue is up there could be a case made that you're doing it deliberately... but once? Maybe even twice? Drop a 'sorry mb' in chat and you're covered.

Again I feel the need to clarify I'm not advocating for this behavior, only calling out the misinformation I see being spread. You would certainly be in the wrong for doing it in most cases but SE isn't going to be taking action against your account and to imply they would is showing a profound lack of understanding.

[Yue_Amariyo]

She's partially correct. The GMs will typically lean on giving the benefit of doubt whenever plausible. But if you're particularly blatant with Rescue spam, you will get in trouble for it.

this is true, SE as a whole does not view pk/mpk highly it was a big issue in ff11 making them write it into the policy, and even changing the very content it was done in.
Someone mpk me in Aurum vale simply because i defended the tank who tried to pull big, but healer failed at healing it. They was at full mp, earlier they bragged on being able to heal through mechanics vs doing them.

No one was attacking them, bullying them or the like. They just assumed i was bad, and let me die by refusing to heal me. They fully admitted to it.

i reported it, and got a GM very quickly.

in ff11 When i was younger, (20) i was in a group who bullied me over my race/class choice. (tarutaru monk this was 1 year into the release when metas were developing)
i had ti log off as it was my brother turn, and told them so, they refused to let me leave. I got tired and ran to get a ton of goblins, drop party and logged out. after i was able to log on, i reported my own actions as I knew i should have acted better.

was take to gm jail, and outside the gm first note about how adorable my tarutaru was (really first words from the gm was omg you are too cute) we talked over how my behavior was bad, and that if I do it repeatedly my account would be suspended. I said yes, and promised to never do it again.

[Avoidy]

I use Rescue to pull people out of dangerous zones that will kill them. I've saved many people that way. Healers worried about using it accidentally should just bind it to a modifier key. So instead of having it on X, I have it on Shift+X so I can't "accidentally" press it. Plenty of skills in this game can be used to irritate players. Doesn't mean they should be removed from the game or changed in a way that will make them useless. Certain tanks have an ability that drops their HP to 1 in exchange for limited invulnerability. I know more than a few who like to use it after they know I've blown my big heals on purpose; they even have a "healers adjust" macro attached to it, and get a laugh out of me dealing with their "mistake." But you don't see me coming here demanding they remove the skill from the game, because that skill has value in the right hands. It's the same case with Rescue.

For whatever it's worth, I do agree that if your healer's basically leashing you through a dungeon, they should try better communication methods. But the skill does have very useful applications, especially for helping new players, and what you're asking for would ruin a lot of enjoyment for people who actually enjoy supporting their party.

[Quintessa]

in ff11 When i was younger, (20) i was in a group who bullied me over my race/class choice. (tarutaru monk this was 1 year into the release when metas were developing)
i had ti log off as it was my brother turn, and told them so, they refused to let me leave. I got tired and ran to get a ton of goblins, drop party and logged out. after i was able to log on, i reported my own actions as I knew i should have acted better.

was take to gm jail, and outside the gm first note about how adorable my tarutaru was (really first words from the gm was omg you are too cute) we talked over how my behavior was bad, and that if I do it repeatedly my account would be suspended. I said yes, and promised to never do it again.

GMs back then for FFXI was incredibly awesome. I remember getting into a fit with HNMLS leader and chucked my character, deleted, gone. Character restoration wasn't a thing during this time, the GM told me that they were working on what is now known as Character Reactivation System for Deleted characters but it was a long way off, and all he could do is restore individual items. This guy, AT WORK, sat there and talked with me to keep me calm because I wasn't in the right mind after being backstabbed and rage quitting in the worst way. I was happy that he talked to me. I don't remember his name, but I will never forget him.

Tarus were looked down upon for any job they were that wasn't a caster job >_>. I've been taru throughout and healed taru PLDs, NINs, etc lol, and for crying out loud you fight a taru monk for the last LB quest lmao.

This might be why the team moved away from statistical racial distinction in 1.0 and Yoshida included that into his vision when he took over.

MPKs in FFXI, evil as they were, were always a darn spectacle to see. Remember the SAM NM Ghost? He'd go racking up kill counts in such interesting ways in Valkurm Dunes. It was funny how you could take an NM and drag them across a whole zone and watch them trottle back real slow and eat alive any lowbie that happens to be on their path. Or high level Goblin Leechers who cannot die because they'd just cure themselves, and then wipe dune parties with Bomb Toss. Folks not really good at avoiding aggro would have all the gobs in tow running to Selbina and we'd be locked out of the area for like an hour until some nice high level players would come to kill them. Reminds me of Crawlers Nest. Being locked out for hours because someone pulled all crawlers and scorpions straight to the entrance.

Yeah that was perhaps the most needed and necessary fix for the game of all time lol.

[Nedkel]

if you are still learning to tank, then ya... not every player in every dungeon is geared/skilled to handle pulling wall to wall. It is a group effort, it crazy people try it in starter dungeons and new players, like myself end up not knowing wtf to do. wipes happen and ppl blame game each other.

Well i am speaking here about tanks on max lvl and those players who are synced in lower lvl dungeons.
I would understand a 80 lvl tanks limiting their pulls if dungeons were wide open and you have a choice to pull everything in sight, however in this game you could pull only 2 groups max, its like bare minimum in any other mmorpg and it should not be a problem to hold them for anyone. This is how dumbed down the dungeons in this game are.
A tank pulling 1 group at time is literally making it slower than a group with 3 dps + healer, thanks to the lesser tank dps importance with each patch tanks job is being ridiculed as their dps is getting lower and the only value they really have right now are deffensive stats that allows to pull 2 groups instead of 1.

So tanks, you need to pull wall to wall, there is no excuse anymore.
Also the only wipes that happens in this game are when healer gets a little more greedy on dps and fail to heal a tank in time, at least this is what happens to me when i play healer and i forget myself. There is no way in hell a tank will die if healer only heals him, even if both are on minimum ilvl for certain dungeon, the amount of heals variations available is waaay above the dungeon monsters dps output. You could use your strongest healing GCD spell and you still could heal a tank from anything, heals are that overpowered

[Yue_Amariyo]

Well i am speaking here about tanks on max lvl and those players who are synced in lower lvl dungeons.
I would understand a 80 lvl tanks limiting their pulls if dungeons were wide open and you have a choice to pull everything in sight, however in this game you could pull only 2 groups max, its like bare minimum in any other mmorpg and it should not be a problem to hold them for anyone. This is how dumbed down the dungeons in this game are.
A tank pulling 1 group at time is literally making it slower than a group with 3 dps + healer, thanks to the lesser tank dps importance with each patch tanks job is being ridiculed as their dps is getting lower and the only value they really have right now are deffensive stats that allows to pull 2 groups instead of 1.

So tanks, you need to pull wall to wall, there is no excuse anymore.
Also the only wipes that happens in this game are when healer gets a little more greedy on dps and fail to heal a tank in time, at least this is what happens to me when i play healer and i forget myself. There is no way in hell a tank will die if healer only heals him, even if both are on minimum ilvl for certain dungeon, the amount of heals variations available is waaay above the dungeon monsters dps output. You could use your strongest healing GCD spell and you still could heal a tank from anything, heals are that overpowered

I would say, stop assuming the skill level of the players. There more players in a group then just a tank and healer. Pulling wall to wall is a group effort, that requires high skill, and understanding of the dungeon. Not every level 80 you see will know their job front to back or be vet players. Not all players in the group will know the dungeon front to back.

You can claim dungeons are dumb down FOR YOU only, you cant speak on the behalf of others. I have personally wiped trying to large pulls, due to the dps simply not being geared for it, or the healer not used to healing it. wall to wall pulling should NEVER be forced on players who are not ready, it ruins the fun of everyone.

One thing im starting to dislike is Meta is all or nothing in ff14, but there is 0 communication in game. People seem to despise it. Only times i had good large pulls as a healer were with my fc mate who made it known in advance. Not everyone looks up the forums, watches videos, or is in an fc. They may not know the meta is tanks pull boss to boss or nothing.

I also find it petty to DEMAND tanks NEED to pull wall to wall. i have done every dungeon from sastasha to stone vigil as both large and small pulls, i honestly do not notice that much of a time difference.

what I do notice as a tank, is healer rely on freecure trait a bit much and died to healers going Oom. I also notice as more and more fresh ppl join the game, i see no one really keeping gear up to date. Even a few fc mates noticed in higher level dungeons just ppl not upgrading their gear. Like one ran into a dancer with lvl 17 gathering gear in a dungeon called the aery.

lastly, people who are forcing the meta with a my way or the high way attitude under the guise of (but the other members of the party) are typically called a word starting with E. ff11 had a rule of friends do not let friend be an E. Communicate with your party so everyone is on the same page, never force your playstyle on others.

[Yue_Amariyo]

GMs back then for FFXI was incredibly awesome. I remember getting into a fit with HNMLS leader and chucked my character, deleted, gone. Character restoration wasn't a thing during this time, the GM told me that they were working on what is now known as Character Reactivation System for Deleted characters but it was a long way off, and all he could do is restore individual items. This guy, AT WORK, sat there and talked with me to keep me calm because I wasn't in the right mind after being backstabbed and rage quitting in the worst way. I was happy that he talked to me. I don't remember his name, but I will never forget him.

Tarus were looked down upon for any job they were that wasn't a caster job >_>. I've been taru throughout and healed taru PLDs, NINs, etc lol, and for crying out loud you fight a taru monk for the last LB quest lmao.

This might be why the team moved away from statistical racial distinction in 1.0 and Yoshida included that into his vision when he took over.

MPKs in FFXI, evil as they were, were always a darn spectacle to see. Remember the SAM NM Ghost? He'd go racking up kill counts in such interesting ways in Valkurm Dunes. It was funny how you could take an NM and drag them across a whole zone and watch them trottle back real slow and eat alive any lowbie that happens to be on their path. Or high level Goblin Leechers who cannot die because they'd just cure themselves, and then wipe dune parties with Bomb Toss. Folks not really good at avoiding aggro would have all the gobs in tow running to Selbina and we'd be locked out of the area for like an hour until some nice high level players would come to kill them. Reminds me of Crawlers Nest. Being locked out for hours because someone pulled all crawlers and scorpions straight to the entrance.

Yeah that was perhaps the most needed and necessary fix for the game of all time lol.

where you think i was in the mpk i did xD dunes group, i was trying to get lvl 15 for subjob quest, party was by the goblin rock camp where ppl would camp between the rock and boarder... i saw a few deaths thanks to bomb toss as i logged out.

like i said i knew it was bad, and immature since i reported myself. I am happy they fixed it, by adding the leeshing, making hnm only spawn for the spawning team. Also glad they made it part of the ToS.