We should get exp boost in the game.

[PyurBlue]

I don't need to repeat what many others have already stated, so I will focus on what wasn't said yet.


If (new) players would level that fast from LV1 / 30 / 50 / 60 up to Maxlevel a ka LV 80, I am pretty sure they wouldn't be able to get the most out of their job.

I'm no elitist, but I say each job a person plays should be understood by them.
->Looking at many new players (including rushers) I have seen in the last years, people who take their time with FFXIV are usually (far) better in this undertaking than those who can't wait to join in the tomestone-grind-machine.

And it's not only about knowing how / when to use what skill. Being capable of dodging AOEs and grasping mechanics / marks / debuffs is also something a player can't obtain by quick-leveling.

(I have seen in the last weeks many newer healers who never use Esuna on paralysis / poison and even let people die to doom. Coincidence?)

The game doesn't really have a system to teach you how to play though, and that's taking MSQ into account. Situations where you have to play at a level even approaching optimally are very rare. You can clear most things by pressing whatever buttons you want. I went through a good portion of the early game undergeared because solo content was so easy I didn't know that my gear was bad and in dungeons the rest of the party would make up for my DPS, which I had no way of measuring.

Then there is level sync, which prevents you from using your skills if you outlevel content. If you do roulettes at all, that will probably happen. In my case I ignored a lot of useful skills because they were very often placed off limits. Learning the game in any sort of depth became much easier at the end game. I could use my skills because they weren't being taken away from me and I learned what skills fit a given situation because there was actually a risk of failure.

Some people just do things differently. So even if the MSQ works fine for some as a tutorial, that doesn't mean it's going to be universally good.

[Dfess]

Like in Maxlevel-players only? Yeah, good joke right now, when enough people take a break.

Do you level jobs at the moment or play with alt-characters? I do the latter and have rarely LV80-people in instance-unlocking-ques / low-level- & LV50/60-roulettes.
->Often enough I end up in runs with me being the only 'senior' in the group.

I'm an alt character player. I don't believe in one character being everything

[Rymm]

What's even more surprising is the amount of people just seemingly telling new players they don't want you here.

Well that's quite the double-whammy of assumptions. First, that players who want the story to remain central to the core gameplay are somehow unwelcoming to new players joining the game. Secondly, that the majority or even a large minority of new players somehow find the MSQ to be an insurmountable obstacle that causes them to quit the game.

I'm an alt character player. I don't believe in one character being everything

Ah, here it is. Let's drop the façade of those "poor little new players beaten down by the MSQ" and get to the real root of your post. It's not the new players playing the MSQ for the first time (when it's all new and exciting), it's people who choose to level multiple characters and are "forced" to see the MSQ over and over in order to do so that spawned this thread.

[Eldevern]

Honestly, for the skill (outside of Ex+ training groups), it is in bad groups you will be pushed to play the best way possible... if you don't give up and "suicide" for a brand new start ( and if you don't ragequit/fall in despair XD).

[SamRF]

Ah, here it is. Let's drop the façade of those "poor little new players beaten down by the MSQ" and get to the real root of your post. It's not the new players playing the MSQ for the first time (when it's all new and exciting), it's people who choose to level multiple characters and are "forced" to see the MSQ over and over in order to do so that spawned this thread.

If you've been around other MMO forums etc it's a very common complaint you hear about FFXIV being a tiring and slow experience to start, compared to other MMOs. I've read many times about people quitting because of this and I'd definitely consider it a good argument, even if it wasn't actually OP's intention (who cares what OP's intention is anyway). I've never created an alt and don't plan to ever do so but still want there to be a voluntary function that makes MSQ optional and it's not because of alts, but because I want endgame to be (even) more populated and have more players enjoying the game I'm sinking most time in.

It would also make it feasible for me to perhaps invite friends to the game, since there's absolutely no way I see them going trough all the MSQ just to start getting to the exciting combat content. Really though, I think most overestimate how much people value story in MMOs and video games in general, most people are just impatient and want to have a stimulating time when gaming. The type of person that goes out of their way to be active on forums will obviously be more inclined to be invested in lore and follow the story diligently, but I doubt it's a representative crowd.

[Melichoir]

Ah, here it is. Let's drop the façade of those "poor little new players beaten down by the MSQ" and get to the real root of your post. It's not the new players playing the MSQ for the first time (when it's all new and exciting), it's people who choose to level multiple characters and are "forced" to see the MSQ over and over in order to do so that spawned this thread.

I do think this is part of it, but I dont think that many people actually run alts in this game to a serious degree. Hell, the alt that I do have I have specifically to reexperience the MSQ and be a bit cheese about it for fun(Try to level my alt as high as possible without progressing the MSQ, for example).

I think the bigger opposition towards mandatory MSQ tends to come from newer players who have migrated from WoW. Not all, and maybe not even a majority, but that is where Ive seen it from when its brought up. Typically it's cause those types are more used to how wow operates, where you participate in content as you see fit (and are used to speed leveling to max, power gearing, and then focusing on end game content.

There isnt anything wrong with this as a playstyle, but its not one that fits well into FFXIV as an MMO. Youre expected to experience the story. May not be your cup of tea, but thats the nature of the game and a big part of the draw. If you dont care about MSQ, just speed through text and skip cutscenes. The MSQ is long, but its not as long as people think it is if you just power through the content.

... still want there to be a voluntary function that makes MSQ optional and it's not because of alts, but because I want endgame to be (even) more populated and have more players enjoying the game I'm sinking most time in.

Ive been vocal about this in the past, but I dont want there to be an easy path to skipping MSQ because it trains players (particularly new ones) to treat the game in a fast food style of gameplay. There is no 'core' content. Just a bunch of things you do, you pick it up and dump it just as fast, and its all about 'End game' and nothing else. This also has the knock on effect that train players to have certain expectations, they will fall more into that sort of gameplay, and expect it overall. So in this case, make MSQ optional, Dont have the core, promote the idea that the goal of hte game is "Get Max Level to start having any fun" and players will expect it. Which means content and everything is altered to reflect that mindset youve trained players into.

The thing is , atleast from my perspective, the model exacerbates toxicity in player bases and detachment. You can have friends, but youre not really part of a larger whole. Youre just kinda...around other players, and not part of them as a larger community. Dont get me wrong, this was a thing in wow at one point in time (particularly with Horde V Alliance world pvp), but it's not the feeling I get anymore. What little there is feels...manufactured. Fake. Forced. Like the Devs are telling you that your part of something 'bigger' rather than players feeling like they are. In FFXIV, there is atleast one core thing that all players from Savage to beginner can kind of relate and bond over: MSQ. It's not always great, sometimes its dumb, sometimes its a slog, sometimes its excellent, and sometimes it's effing amazing - and that is something everything can relate over. This doesnt mean there isnt toxicity in the playerbase, or people who dont care, or the like, but there is something at its center. A central experience and overall concept. FFXIV isnt perfect, but the feel of it as an MMO is different from WoW, and I think that has a lot to do with how it's structured as an MMO with consideration to MSQ.

[Dfess]

Ah, here it is. Let's drop the façade of those "poor little new players beaten down by the MSQ" and get to the real root of your post. It's not the new players playing the MSQ for the first time (when it's all new and exciting), it's people who choose to level multiple characters and are "forced" to see the MSQ over and over in order to do so that spawned this thread.

Well, this would be a surprise if I hadn't made this distinction before. I am for more alt friendly content. It just so happens to coincide with making it easier for new players as well. I have never hid this fact since I even started the game. I have been complaining about the games progression since I started it. It's really slow and daunting for people who aren't willing to put in the time or who just don't have the time to spend playing. It's easier for them to pick up games like WoW and BDO. Even I passed this game up several times before finally giving it a shot in 2018/2019 and I only checked it out because my cousins wanted to play it. I stayed and they left.

[BlitzAceRush]

But there are several other MMO's that are happy to disregard their own content save the hollowed "endgame" and only 14 that dosen't, why is it wrong that it dose things it's own way?
"MMO's are stagnant! They're all the same!"
*One MMO dares to do something different, that some people like and dislike like pretty much anything as nothing is perfect.*
"WHY AREN'T YOU LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE?! WHY BE DIFFERENT?!"
Honestly I never had a problem with ARR or the MSQ, I like the way it's set up. What I've never understood is why if I didn't I should demand a game change one of it's core identities, one of the things that most sets it apart because I don't like it.
It's one thing to suggest imporvements. "Trim some featch quests." "This class could use X" It's another thing when your 'improvement' is "I like this other game, stop being you and be this other game please"

If all I cared about is story in WoW, it is there I have the option but it's not the focus and I've got to go find it, read this quest, talk to this NPC do things in order myself, it won't hold my hand or make it easy for me, but it is there. Should I demand WoW add an unskip-able main story because I and people like me would enjoy it? No, the game gives me the option to find what story is has if I'm willing to put in the work, but that's not the kind of game WoW wants to be.
Those who have no interest in the story have options, there are boost, road to 70 and if they really don't care the skip potions.
14 is a Final Fantasy game and an MMO, that's what it wants to be, if you don't like that, fair enough but there are options for you to bypass the part you don't and you only have to do the MSQ once, if you can't even muster that or to use the tools available to go around it, then questioning if you're playing the right game is valid.

Yes, games are there to make money but they're also adhering to a vision, if every game just did everything every other game in it's genre did then most would die out, it's their differences that allow them to occupy the same space, trying to mindlessly copy everything WoW did how WoW did it is what killed most of the "WoW killers"

[Dfess]

But there are several other MMO's that are happy to disregard their own content save the hollowed "endgame" and only 14 that dosen't, why is it wrong that it dose things it's own way?
"MMO's are stagnant! They're all the same!"
*One MMO dares to do something different, that some people like and dislike like pretty much anything as nothing is perfect.*
"WHY AREN'T YOU LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE?! WHY BE DIFFERENT?!"
Honestly I never had a problem with ARR or the MSQ, I like the way it's set up. What I've never understood is why if I didn't I should demand a game change one of it's core identities, one of the things that most sets it apart because I don't like it.
It's one thing to suggest imporvements. "Trim some featch quests." "This class could use X" It's another thing when your 'improvement' is "I like this other game, stop being you and be this other game please"

If all I cared about is story in WoW, it is there I have the option but it's not the focus and I've got to go find it, read this quest, talk to this NPC do things in order myself, it won't hold my hand or make it easy for me, but it is there. Should I demand WoW add an unskip-able main story because I and people like me would enjoy it? No, the game gives me the option to find what story is has if I'm willing to put in the work, but that's not the kind of game WoW wants to be.
Those who have no interest in the story have options, there are boost, road to 70 and if they really don't care the skip potions.
14 is a Final Fantasy game and an MMO, that's what it wants to be, if you don't like that, fair enough but there are options for you to bypass the part you don't and you only have to do the MSQ once, if you can't even muster that or to use the tools available to go around it, then questioning if you're playing the right game is valid.

Yes, games are there to make money but they're also adhering to a vision, if every game just did everything every other game in it's genre did then most would die out, it's their differences that allow them to occupy the same space, trying to mindlessly copy everything WoW did how WoW did it is what killed most of the "WoW killers"

WoW doesn't need to add a mandatory story since it's optional. FFXIV is the only game in the genre holding itself back. No one is saying to remove the story. Just let players choose if they want to do the story or not. Like I said this game isn't getting shorter with new expansions and eventually it will get to a point where the only people playing are the people caught up with current content. It will be the eventual death of the game.

[SamRF]

Ive been vocal about this in the past, but I dont want there to be an easy path to skipping MSQ because it trains players (particularly new ones) to treat the game in a fast food style of gameplay. There is no 'core' content. Just a bunch of things you do, you pick it up and dump it just as fast, and its all about 'End game' and nothing else. This also has the knock on effect that train players to have certain expectations, they will fall more into that sort of gameplay, and expect it overall. So in this case, make MSQ optional, Dont have the core, promote the idea that the goal of hte game is "Get Max Level to start having any fun" and players will expect it. Which means content and everything is altered to reflect that mindset youve trained players into.

The thing is , atleast from my perspective, the model exacerbates toxicity in player bases and detachment. You can have friends, but youre not really part of a larger whole. Youre just kinda...around other players, and not part of them as a larger community. Dont get me wrong, this was a thing in wow at one point in time (particularly with Horde V Alliance world pvp), but it's not the feeling I get anymore. What little there is feels...manufactured. Fake. Forced. Like the Devs are telling you that your part of something 'bigger' rather than players feeling like they are. In FFXIV, there is atleast one core thing that all players from Savage to beginner can kind of relate and bond over: MSQ. It's not always great, sometimes its dumb, sometimes its a slog, sometimes its excellent, and sometimes it's effing amazing - and that is something everything can relate over. This doesnt mean there isnt toxicity in the playerbase, or people who dont care, or the like, but there is something at its center. A central experience and overall concept. FFXIV isnt perfect, but the feel of it as an MMO is different from WoW, and I think that has a lot to do with how it's structured as an MMO with consideration to MSQ.

Didn't really look at it from this angle before and it's a good argument which may change my mind on the subject, I'll think on it.

edit: I think I can agree with this notion that it would train you to get into a more fast food kind of mindset but I wouldn't have a problem with a portion of player base becoming like this. If you'd look at suggestion in this post, I'm proposing a voluntary separate option that basically gets you into "unlock content without MSQ" mode. Something you'll have to toggle and is turnt off by default. I wouldn't use this toggle myself but I wouldn't mind other players using it, even if it meant that they'd be the fast food rush type of player. I don't like having this kind of mindset myself, but that's why I personally wouldn't use this toggle.

Personally don't believe this game's community to be good, in fact I'd much prefer to have some more WoW type of community in this game and considering that I'd really have no problem promoting this mindset. The elitist and edgy toxicity bothers me far less than the emotional manipulation and entitled snowflake behavior in this game. Will come down to preference I guess in what you want to expect from community and I'm not really a community invested player myself (solo PUG player) so that may be where my bias comes from.