Suggesting Ideas for Blue Mage with feedback & Removing Limited Job Status

[sarehptar]

I’d say at this point Aetherial Mimicry is the least of our concerns as it stands Blue Mage is still DPS, if it were to gain the abilities of a tank, they only raise their defense and boost certain skills, if healer the certain moves that are healer based will become stronger and if DPS Critical and Direct Hit rate increase. Currently Aetherial Mimicry is more of A Realm Reborn (ARR) pseudo tank stance with the ability to affect a Blue Mage’s capabilities in a fight. I can agree with the sentiment that Blue wasn’t designed to be a Tank, but a healer or DPS? Sure! I mean it isn’t far of a stretch when their FFXI counterpart can easily do tanking, support or damage dealers, so maybe in FFXIV they can be a DPS and a Healer rather than a tank. At this stage of time if Blue Mage is only to be able to que as a DPS role that is perfectly fine, it just means some Blue Mages have an easier time to learn spells only available in dungeons or Duty Finder.

No, I meant more in terms of the practical, back-end coding issue. For a four-man dungeon, for example, the Duty Finder is coded to find one tank, one healer, and two DPS. But the game always considers BLU a DPS, even if you mimic a tank or a healer. Therefore, with the current actual coding of the Duty Finder, it would only ever be possible for BLU to queue via DF as a DPS--the Duty Finder just isn't set up to recognize BLU as a tank or healer, no matter what skills you have set or what you have mimic'd. This means that if BLU was allowed to use DF, you'd only ever be able to go as a DPS, which does suck some of the fun out of the class--part of BLU's appeal is being able to do all three roles.

In order to fix this issue, Square would either have to completely recode how aetherial mimicry works so that the game would actually recognize a BLU in tank stance as a tank or in heal stance as a healer, or they'd have to complete rewrite the way the Duty Finder works to allow BLU to select a specific role (tank, healer, or DPS) before queuing. Either possibility seems highly unlikely to me at this point.

However, even if the coding can't be fixed, allowing BLU to DF-queue as a DPS with a DPS-specific set of skills should still happen. If you just block the instant-kill skills from BLU, it would function exactly the same as any other DPS in average DF stuff without needing any real tweaks. The only reason I can see for this not happening yet is that Square just doesn't have the resources to actually balance another DPS class right now.

[Melichoir]

snip

Let me put it this way to simplify - Having 2 BLU in your party with comparable damage to standard DPS that would provide a sustained 5% damage boost for 30 seconds is already likely to be more optimal a party lay out than to bring to 2 DPS. You dont need to make those BLUs DPS, you can have htem as healers. Even if you took them as DPS, since they average the same DPS as other classes so theyre viable, that is already a huge deal, along with some of the other things in their kits. You really gonna tell me that raiders wont look at this and say "Gee, this is better". This was part of the problem in raiding in the past xpacs - certain classes were way more valued, and as a result shut a lot of doors for people playing less optimal classes. This was something the devs went out of their way to change for ShB. Im not even happy with how the Devs corrected this problem, but it is very clear that this is something they want to discourage.

Not to mention you are now having to create exceptions like "Well, you cant bring htis skill, or cant use that skill" to get the class to function in content at a basic level. We can already see that 8 BLUs can clear raid content just fine - why is it youre thinking "Nah, this wont be the case at lvl 80 content". Then, If youre designing them to have restrictions where certain skills arent useable in certain content - where exactly would those skills be applicable that would make sense? I dont use Missile if I were to run Tam Tara unsynced. Id just use Mountain buster or something and insta kill stuff. If Im synced to that content, are you gonna say "Yeah just let people use Missile" and make it where regular DPS cant effectively compete? I can just see it now: "Ugh, we got a party with regular DPS and healers, and not BLUs. Ok, this is gonna be a 15 to 20 minute run."

I get it, you want to play BLU at 80. But the way it is currently set up, simply saying "Nah, minor edits will be enough" is silly. You would literally have to redesign the class to make it viable, and much like the last time this was discussed, that would open up a huge can o worms for balance and keeping the 'spirit of BLU' intact. What you are asking as it currently is is not a feasible direction without a complete overhaul.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

No, I meant more in terms of the practical, back-end coding issue. For a four-man dungeon, for example, the Duty Finder is coded to find one tank, one healer, and two DPS. But the game always considers BLU a DPS, even if you mimic a tank or a healer. Therefore, with the current actual coding of the Duty Finder, it would only ever be possible for BLU to queue via DF as a DPS--the Duty Finder just isn't set up to recognize BLU as a tank or healer, no matter what skills you have set or what you have mimic'd. This means that if BLU was allowed to use DF, you'd only ever be able to go as a DPS, which does suck some of the fun out of the class--part of BLU's appeal is being able to do all three roles.

In order to fix this issue, Square would either have to completely recode how aetherial mimicry works so that the game would actually recognize a BLU in tank stance as a tank or in heal stance as a healer, or they'd have to complete rewrite the way the Duty Finder works to allow BLU to select a specific role (tank, healer, or DPS) before queuing. Either possibility seems highly unlikely to me at this point.

However, even if the coding can't be fixed, allowing BLU to DF-queue as a DPS with a DPS-specific set of skills should still happen. If you just block the instant-kill skills from BLU, it would function exactly the same as any other DPS in average DF stuff without needing any real tweaks. The only reason I can see for this not happening yet is that Square just doesn't have the resources to actually balance another DPS class right now.

That seems to be the case, if Aetherial Mimicry becomes something similar to that of a stance that changes the Blue Mage’s role then it would be very likely that they have to recode specifically for Blue Mage.which in turn be a lengthy process altogether to make the class truly multi-role. I agree this would be an unlikely scenario even with the highest of hopes. The most likely scenario is that they would be a pure-DPS role with a lot of utility.

If they were to pick the least amount of difficulty in the list of options you point out, I'd say they would just make it a pure DPS with additional utility. Like Red Mage, a useful utility mage that can raise anyone if a party member faints and heal anyone that a Healer is too far to reach. If Square Enix doesn't have much resources to try and balance or improve Blue Mage. I'd suggest as a community of players let us discuss more on how we could improve Blue Mage and how it can be implemented as a proper job without altering too much of its skill. I welcome a critical discussion on the thread I have posted here in the SE forums.

[SpiralMask]

No, I meant more in terms of the practical, back-end coding issue. For a four-man dungeon, for example, the Duty Finder is coded to find one tank, one healer, and two DPS. But the game always considers BLU a DPS, even if you mimic a tank or a healer. Therefore, with the current actual coding of the Duty Finder, it would only ever be possible for BLU to queue via DF as a DPS--the Duty Finder just isn't set up to recognize BLU as a tank or healer, no matter what skills you have set or what you have mimic'd. This means that if BLU was allowed to use DF, you'd only ever be able to go as a DPS, which does suck some of the fun out of the class--part of BLU's appeal is being able to do all three roles.

In order to fix this issue, Square would either have to completely recode how aetherial mimicry works so that the game would actually recognize a BLU in tank stance as a tank or in heal stance as a healer, or they'd have to complete rewrite the way the Duty Finder works to allow BLU to select a specific role (tank, healer, or DPS) before queuing. Either possibility seems highly unlikely to me at this point.

However, even if the coding can't be fixed, allowing BLU to DF-queue as a DPS with a DPS-specific set of skills should still happen. If you just block the instant-kill skills from BLU, it would function exactly the same as any other DPS in average DF stuff without needing any real tweaks. The only reason I can see for this not happening yet is that Square just doesn't have the resources to actually balance another DPS class right now.

along with snipping the death skills for DF, moving white wind from %hp-based to a flat potency like other heals would help in any case so you dont have a DPS as the defacto best healer in the game, and a great many of the "OP" status effects (deep freeze, petrify, long-duration paralyze, etc) could be either put on a cooldown like the stun-kick role action, as a charge-based skill with a cooldown (i'd argue that loom needs this regardless), increased mana costs to prevent spamming, or reduced in duration for basic balance/encounter design allowances so the BLU isnt locking down whole packs through dungeons or skipping/breaking mechanics and whatnot (though in any case the problem of immunities/resistance buildup and the skills' overall limited usefulness in FF14's combat system remains, since most later-end monsters and bosses would likely be immune to everything but interrupts and possibly stuns anyway)

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Let me put it this way to simplify - Having 2 BLU in your party with comparable damage to standard DPS that would provide a sustained 5% damage boost for 30 seconds is already likely to be more optimal a party lay out than to bring to 2 DPS. You dont need to make those BLUs DPS, you can have htem as healers. Even if you took them as DPS, since they average the same DPS as other classes so theyre viable, that is already a huge deal, along with some of the other things in their kits. You really gonna tell me that raiders wont look at this and say "Gee, this is better". This was part of the problem in raiding in the past xpacs - certain classes were way more valued, and as a result shut a lot of doors for people playing less optimal classes. This was something the devs went out of their way to change for ShB. Im not even happy with how the Devs corrected this problem, but it is very clear that this is something they want to discourage.

Not to mention you are now having to create exceptions like "Well, you cant bring htis skill, or cant use that skill" to get the class to function in content at a basic level. We can already see that 8 BLUs can clear raid content just fine - why is it youre thinking "Nah, this wont be the case at lvl 80 content". Then, If youre designing them to have restrictions where certain skills arent useable in certain content - where exactly would those skills be applicable that would make sense? I dont use Missile if I were to run Tam Tara unsynced. Id just use Mountain buster or something and insta kill stuff. If Im synced to that content, are you gonna say "Yeah just let people use Missile" and make it where regular DPS cant effectively compete? I can just see it now: "Ugh, we got a party with regular DPS and healers, and not BLUs. Ok, this is gonna be a 15 to 20 minute run."

I get it, you want to play BLU at 80. But the way it is currently set up, simply saying "Nah, minor edits will be enough" is silly. You would literally have to redesign the class to make it viable, and much like the last time this was discussed, that would open up a huge can o worms for balance and keeping the 'spirit of BLU' intact. What you are asking as it currently is is not a feasible direction without a complete overhaul.

Without a doubt raiders would look to that and say that is the best way to deal with the raids, but I highly doubt any sensible static would force two of their members to become Blue Mages just for the sake of progression. They already are discouraging this ‘Meta Party’ but we cannot control what people wanna do. If they want to do it, fine, it is on them. Remember some raider who went and used a third party in Ultimate Coil of Bahamut (UCOB) just to move the markers mid fight? Everyone will cheese, even raiders, everyone wants the world first clear as a record.

The reason why I said it won’t happen in raid content is that if we apply such skills with flat damage in a dungeon or raid setting, things would be broken and people will opt for Blue Mage in normal parties more often than not. If we restrict skill that does flat damage, the fight will be ok, that or increase the chances of the attack missing or increase the cost that if they missed it is more punishable.I didn’t say let them use missile if they are synced I just said if they are going to do roulette or synced content, let certain overpowered skills be restricted. Again let me clarify, I just said restrict the overpowered skills if the Blue Mages are running Duty Finder. So it is fair to all DPS that are running the same dungeon as them. If they wanna power through as their own DPS like our current classes, we have tons of Area of Effect options, even tanks and healers have them. No one is going to think that the dungeon run is going to be long. It is about how well the players can hold out on their own merits, if I was Summoner I do my aoe rotation as soon as possible trying to get to phoenix mode so I can forever cast aoe before the end of the duration. If the dungeon is running slow either it is your fault or someone’s fault for not putting effort into trying to finish the dungeon quickly. Also it is just a dungeon and we are far into the patch that anyone can start mass pulling.

I didn’t just say minor edits will be enough I said I am open to more ideas, if you got a better idea and wanna suggest it, then say so. Between our interactions, we are just having an argument whether or not Blue Mage should be a real job and that is fine. If they wanna keep the spirit of blue, they are doing so now. They just need to balance it. Throughout my journey in Vana'diel as a Blue Mage the skills there are very different from Eorzea, I am willing to go far and say they didn’t nerf it but buffed it up specifically for FFXIV. Does it need a major overhaul? No, but it does need balance and reworking. Overhaul is just mulligan the entire job and restart, they are doing a great job at setting a canvas for us, the players to play on and give feedback. If they brought it to 70 or 80 within this expansion, we may have a clear portrait of what we can do and how we can adapt Blue Mage for future content. It may not be an easy job, but suggesting ideas to the development team is better than arguing weather Blue Mage should be a proper job.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

along with snipping the death skills for DF, moving white wind from %hp-based to a flat potency like other heals would help in any case so you dont have a DPS as the defacto best healer in the game, and a great many of the "OP" status effects (deep freeze, petrify, long-duration paralyze, etc) could be either put on a cooldown like the stun-kick role action, as a charge-based skill with a cooldown (i'd argue that loom needs this regardless), increased mana costs to prevent spamming, or reduced in duration for basic balance/encounter design allowances so the BLU isnt locking down whole packs through dungeons or skipping/breaking mechanics and whatnot (though in any case the problem of immunities/resistance buildup and the skills' overall limited usefulness in FF14's combat system remains, since most later-end monsters and bosses would likely be immune to everything but interrupts and possibly stuns anyway)

This is a great suggestion to add, Mind I add it to the document? This can provide a general idea on how to allow Blue Mage into future end game content along with the other jobs.

[SpiralMask]

sure thing

[Melichoir]

Without a doubt raiders would look to that and say that is the best way to deal with the raids, but I highly doubt any sensible static would force two of their members to become Blue Mages just for the sake of progression.

I know youve been into raid, and since you brought up past tiers, you should know full well that this is something statics would do if it meant clearing faster. It would be "Were looking for BLUs for static". And in the High End duty system, it would definitely become a option they would force in. Currently you see it far less simply because of what the devs did balance wise. Youd be throwing that back out the window with BLU if left predominately unaltered.

The reason why I said it won’t happen in raid content is that if we apply such skills with flat damage in a dungeon or raid setting, things would be broken and people will opt for Blue Mage in normal parties more often than not. If we restrict skill that does flat damage, the fight will be ok, that or increase the chances of the attack missing or increase the cost that if they missed it is more punishable.I didn’t say let them use missile if they are synced I just said if they are going to do roulette or synced content, let certain overpowered skills be restricted. Again let me clarify, I just said restrict the overpowered skills if the Blue Mages are running Duty Finder. So it is fair to all DPS that are running the same dungeon as them. If they wanna power through as their own DPS like our current classes, we have tons of Area of Effect options, even tanks and healers have them. No one is going to think that the dungeon run is going to be long. It is about how well the players can hold out on their own merits, if I was Summoner I do my aoe rotation as soon as possible trying to get to phoenix mode so I can forever cast aoe before the end of the duration. If the dungeon is running slow either it is your fault or someone’s fault for not putting effort into trying to finish the dungeon quickly. Also it is just a dungeon and we are far into the patch that anyone can start mass pulling.

I distinctly remember times in HW where people complained about how long it took to clear certain content (dungeons and the like) due to party comp and having certain classes. People optimize for speed - If a BLU party can clear a dungeon in 5-10 minutes, and it takes 20-30 for a standard party, what do you realistically think people are gonna start doing and gravitate towards? Furthermore, talking about DF/PF differences, youve done one of two things - Disincentivized BLUs from running DF, or incentivized people to run PF over DF. This then gets a bit more wonky - What are you to do with dungeon rewards? Far as I know, if you manually queue for a dungeon, as long as its a standard party comp, youll get the base dungeon rewards. Now we will have a system where its more efficient to cap Tomestones by using BLU to cheese the dungeons at max. Unless you say no tome rewards...then why run the dungeons with a BLU? For fun? Lets be realistic. The first thing thatll happen is people will start complaining about how come BLU gets punished in DF and PF in some capacity and how unfair it is.

Beyond that, youre starting to go into the territory of "Well is this really BLU" at that point. Look at a lot of the damage skills. They are virtually the same skill in all but name. They have a different element, but that only matters once you have condensed libra, and even there you only need ...3 IIRC different spell types in a practical sense to maximize CL. So now there's no fun skills cause youve removed them or nerfed them down for balance sake, then what? Looks cool to spam 4 different spells that are identical save appearance? Part of what makes BLU an interesting and unique class isnt just "Well I copy monster skills", but the absurdity of those skills. It is satisfying doing weird shenanigans with BLU like one shotting a boss with Missile in a party, or tinkering around with the skills to see what you can accomplish or get away with. It becomes a lot less interesting once you gut the unique skills and turn it into a version of BLM.

Now Ive seen the BLU in FFXI argument. I also understand that how combat there worked a lot different. Examples that monsters did have actual elemental attributes. In comparison to FFXIV, FFXIV seems to have drastically simplified how combat works. This, along with a lot of other things (How DF works, PF works, Scaling of skills, etc), Minor changes wont cut it. Changing things like White Wind where it's potency based not only guts the feel of how the skill is and it's uniqueness, but ends up meaning that for BLU to function as healer, a lot more changes (and skills) need to be added. Which then turns it into Diet WHM. And that's just one role. You need to take these considerations into all roles that BLU could play - Things like DiamondBack need to be greatly changed in how it operates, as currently it is quite literally tank LB3.

Instead of just changing skills why not try this: Propose how BLU would function in terms of Rotation and Mechanics. It has to be more than just using monster skills itself as the gimmick since that wont really be teh case cause of how nerfed skills would have to be. BLM, RDM, and SMN all have rotations, mechanics, and some kind of system that they operate on that maximize what skills they have (Astral/Umbral, White/Black Magic/ Aether management, etc respectivelly). What would be BLUs version of this while still maintaining the fact that you use monster skills.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

I know youve been into raid, and since you brought up past tiers, you should know full well that this is something statics would do if it meant clearing faster. It would be "Were looking for BLUs for static". And in the High End duty system, it would definitely become a option they would force in. Currently you see it far less simply because of what the devs did balance wise. Youd be throwing that back out the window with BLU if left predominately unaltered.

I distinctly remember times in HW where people complained about how long it took to clear certain content (dungeons and the like) due to party comp and having certain classes. People optimize for speed - If a BLU party can clear a dungeon in 5-10 minutes, and it takes 20-30 for a standard party, what do you realistically think people are gonna start doing and gravitate towards? Furthermore, talking about DF/PF differences, youve done one of two things - Disincentivized BLUs from running DF, or incentivized people to run PF over DF. This then gets a bit more wonky - What are you to do with dungeon rewards? Far as I know, if you manually queue for a dungeon, as long as its a standard party comp, youll get the base dungeon rewards. Now we will have a system where its more efficient to cap Tomestones by using BLU to cheese the dungeons at max. Unless you say no tome rewards...then why run the dungeons with a BLU? For fun? Lets be realistic. The first thing thatll happen is people will start complaining about how come BLU gets punished in DF and PF in some capacity and how unfair it is.

Beyond that, youre starting to go into the territory of "Well is this really BLU" at that point. Look at a lot of the damage skills. They are virtually the same skill in all but name. They have a different element, but that only matters once you have condensed libra, and even there you only need ...3 IIRC different spell types in a practical sense to maximize CL. So now there's no fun skills cause youve removed them or nerfed them down for balance sake, then what? Looks cool to spam 4 different spells that are identical save appearance? Part of what makes BLU an interesting and unique class isnt just "Well I copy monster skills", but the absurdity of those skills. It is satisfying doing weird shenanigans with BLU like one shotting a boss with Missile in a party, or tinkering around with the skills to see what you can accomplish or get away with. It becomes a lot less interesting once you gut the unique skills and turn it into a version of BLM.

Now Ive seen the BLU in FFXI argument. I also understand that how combat there worked a lot different. Examples that monsters did have actual elemental attributes. In comparison to FFXIV, FFXIV seems to have drastically simplified how combat works. This, along with a lot of other things (How DF works, PF works, Scaling of skills, etc), Minor changes wont cut it. Changing things like White Wind where it's potency based not only guts the feel of how the skill is and it's uniqueness, but ends up meaning that for BLU to function as healer, a lot more changes (and skills) need to be added. Which then turns it into Diet WHM. And that's just one role. You need to take these considerations into all roles that BLU could play - Things like DiamondBack need to be greatly changed in how it operates, as currently it is quite literally tank LB3.

Instead of just changing skills why not try this: Propose how BLU would function in terms of Rotation and Mechanics. It has to be more than just using monster skills itself as the gimmick since that wont really be teh case cause of how nerfed skills would have to be. BLM, RDM, and SMN all have rotations, mechanics, and some kind of system that they operate on that maximize what skills they have (Astral/Umbral, White/Black Magic/ Aether management, etc respectivelly). What would be BLUs version of this while still maintaining the fact that you use monster skills.

Yes, it would be what some static would do. Not all, like I said time and again we cannot control how they wanna do things. Yeah it’ll be a Heavensward savage raid all over again. But you’re looking at it without a job gauge to control its power. At this point in time there is nothing stopping players playing blue to use powerful skills. Hence why I suggested a concept of build a job gauge for it.

Yeah we have players who want to clear dungeons quickly, so to prevent that it would either better up the rewards in Duty roulette but even then DPS queues will be filled with all blue mages. No matter what you do there will always be the group of people having the mindset of let's clear this dungeon over with XXXX Class. Though I like to address again that Blue Mage doesn’t have a job gauge as of now. So we are still testing the waters on how it still can be implemented.

Well the other compromise of not nerfing would be to outright restrict it from Duty Finder so all DPS have a chance to pull their weight in the dungeon and people will stop complaining.

If changes to the skill isn’t necessary then we could do what I have suggested in the document, if we wanna allow the use of monster skills as well as having a job gauge or rotation, then the best we can look at is how Blue Mage worked in FFXI. They fought with swords or clubs, but mainly swords for physical damage dealers and clubs for high magic potency. If we were to put it in a rotation, allow blue mage to have a weapon skill, they’ll have to use a melee weapon skill or physical spell first before they do a magic combo. If we are still gonna stick with a cane then it is plausible to say we can have a weapon skill using a cane. If we wanted to use something like Ifrit’s eruption then we have to use certain skill correlating to Ifrit’s element so Fire Angon plus Flamethrower which then allow use to Ifrit’s eruption. That is putting things simply as an example, if Blue mage have a weapon skill then we would have a job gauge that allows people to use more variety of combo with weapon skill and spells.

Red Mage have their own rotation in which they do a full burst attack with their melee combo first before using Verholy or Verflare and then into Scorch. Why not the exact opposite for Blue Mage. This is a direct inspiration in which I also mention within my document. In FFXI they would go like this, weapon skill to Chain Affinity to physical blue magic to Affinity Burst (Happens immediately after a successful Chain Affinity Combo) and then Magical Affinity finishing off with another blue spell but elemental leading into a powerful magical burst. Yoshida isn’t wrong when he said Blue Mage Can do solo content especially in FFXI, but this is FFXIV where it is very different. We do not have skill chain instead we have rotations. If blue were to have a rotation it’ll be the reverse of a Red Mage. Where melee is the starter or Physical Blue Mage Spells and then a magical combo to follow it up.

With the gauge that has been designed for primals bar a Blue Mage can build up points using certain combos and when enough they can do a same elemental combo allowing them to do primal moves. It is somewhat like Unbridled Learning where a blue mage in FFXI has certain access to certain spells they learned, meaning they cannot cast a specific blue mage spell unless Unbridled Learning has been activated. Kinda like the job gauge I have presented, It can even be renamed Unbridled learning gauge. That would be the mechanic to try and do as many combos to fill their bar to the maximum to unlock certain spells they have equipped so they can use it and then finally reset the gauge.

Gate spells that are learned from the strongest foes that aren’t common like the primals or raid bosses and to unlock them in combat you have to fill up that gauge with your setup of your spells and combos. Learn to make your rotation as a Blue Mage cause with a variety of monster spells, you can make as many combos as you want. Making it a unique customizable job. Just somewhat similar to FFXI’s Blue Mage. Staying true to the idea of Blue Mage being a mage that uses monster skills with them having either having a revamp the type of weapons they can have so they can have a weapon skill. Maybe like a chain whip or a scimitar. The choice of it being a cane is somewhat unorthodox but I can understand because in FFXI Blue Mages can use clubs which are mainly meant for magical attack potency rather than melee. It doesn’t need to be a weapon skill they can combo it from a monster’s physical skill before going into a magic combo.

[Mariel_Crystallie]

After reading the whole argument between Tera & Melichoir. I end up with some idea for devs team.

At this point I understand that Tera really want BLU become an official standard job that can be playable on current content , but also I understand that doing that it's impossible without re-working the whole kit of the current BLU. I also kinda wish BLU can become a real standard job that we can use in every content like other jobs. but by doing that means we need to abandon the current BLU that we already have ( Carnival , Achievement , Skills , etc ) , which gonna lead to another problem to new player or even veteran player that haven't do the current BLU content.

So for my suggestion IF the devs really want make BLU as official jobs , please make 2 version of BLU. 1 with current BLU that we already have and another 1 is the standard job BLU with job gauge and rotation (perhaps we can use the skills that we already have as glamour skills for the standard job version).

But again if we really want this to become real we need more people to agree with it to begin with. hope this thread could reach to the developer teams.