Suggesting Ideas for Blue Mage with feedback & Removing Limited Job Status

[TeraTyrantShadic]

So I guess the proposal would be to remove things like Missile then? Cause despite not using it for bosses, it still is an exceptionally strong skill on trash. Also would need to remove things like Final Sting, cause that would be a problem. Any skills that give flat % damage boosts on short CD would have to be changed.

There's a reason that the 4 minute AV for Mogtomes is a thing. It's because BLUs kit allows for it. If you were to turn BLU into a full class, as proposed, a lot of the status skills and abilities would have to be removed/reworked or prevented from being used in raid content. Otherwise BLU would be a must have in Raids, unless the offset issue is to gut the DPS of the class, but then you run into DPS check issues and it makes it being a full class moot.

Face it, BLU as a concept does not function within the systems of FFXIV. And frankly, Id ont know if it should. I like the class, it's fun to go do the cheese stuff with it, or the Masked Carnival. I like how it is currently, and frankly to make it a full class is gonna require it being reworked from the ground up with a lot of it's skills being homogenized or removed to be practical. I dont think that this is for the best for the class, cause youll likely just end up with a bland mage class that just uses 'glamours' for spells.

Removal of spells? No, but adjusting the spells? I can wholly agree, although I would like to point out that missiles won’t work on Alexander Trash in A12S, mainly because they are a type of mobs categorized as Machines, Machines won’t get affected by Missiles or even Launcher, so people will still have to adjust accordingly. I’d like to also point out that even if we have these skills, if Blue Mages were to participate in the current tier of raids, there is not much to add unless you count E7S & E8S (Eden Raids) where they have adds. Will they be affected by missiles or launchers? I am not too sure, but I doubt it since they can just add resistance to the adds.

I’d say Final Sting and Self Destruct is somewhat decent at the moment. But if there was just 1 Blue Mage in the party it can be a hindrance if the attack wasn’t timed right, plus they already adjusted it to prevent spell spamming until after 10 minutes even after a wipe the debuff remains. In addition if you raise the Blue Mage he will have the Weakness debuff. Overall, not a good idea if you are mainly focused on DPS-ing and if they are healing or tanking, it would be disastrous to the current pull as they wont have the MP to either diamondback a tank buster or White Wind to heal the group during a area of effect raid wide damage.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

The Aurum Vale Farm, While I agree the kit can be used to get a 4 minute run and cheesing it. However that is only because the first two bosses aren’t resistant to missiles or launcher and in the case of a full blue party, yeah it will likely be too overpowered, however you’re looking at it from a specific standpoint to maximize the gain of Mogtomes per minute than a general party play through standpoint. Comparing a full Blue Mage party speed run and grind, to a normal party is to say we are comparing a racing car to a normal car outfitted to be on the road and not on a track.

In terms of DPS check, they have zero issues. An example would be The Burden of the Son (A8S, Winged Justice), and the steam regulator in the first phase only needed 1 DPS per regulator, if a blue mage has a full set of 270 with melds, they meet the check. A few people have cleared it with 0 problems, I doubt a blue mage would have a problem meeting the new raid’s DPS check if they were given a full kit of new spells to play with. The only barrier is following the mechanics, either diamondback it or follow the mechanics. And the real hurdle would be Gavel during the Winged Justice phase, where there are 7 debuffs to resolve and they can be placed randomly because everyone is categorized as a DPS rather than a definitive role. Which means everyone has to adjust accordingly. If a healer got tank debuff ‘Final Judgement: Max HP’, They need to adjust as soon as possible and precast Mighty Guard and then White Wind as soon as possible to grab the aggro, otherwise it can potentially wipe the group. This has been done with a full party of Blue Mages and the DPS check for that isn’t too tight.

The mechanics even if they Diamondback in a normal party, they cannot move for 10 seconds. If the mechanic requires you to move, then the Blue Mage might have potentially ruined the party’s strategy. Another example would be the phase of Swindler, Brawler, Vortexer and Blaster. Blaster is no problem, burn it down quickly. Then Brawler, the beam is random and if it is a single beam it will be a problem for off tank Blue Mage because if done too quickly, The Height Mechanic from Swindler can clip with Brawler’s beam mechanic and if it was a single beam. With the beam coming in first and then Diamondback and a few second later Height and the tank is in the wrong position because of the height and he cannot move because of diamondback, sure it is not a wipe. But he may not have enough MP if another tank buster is coming which may lead to aggro to other members during the run. This is unlikely to happen in normal party settings.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

If Blue Mages are a must have because of their utility and power, we have Red Mages that can easily double raise and double heal with Dual Cast (the potency is not better but it can heal regardless). Summoner with the highest DPS in this current raid tier for casters.

The Job can be implemented and function within the game itself. If it has been done in FFXI so can it be done in FFXIV. Sure we can keep the cheesing some of the old content there, but with current content, I highly doubt you can especially raid these days are mechanic focused with a few tight DPS checks. I highly doubt reworking it is the answer, but I think adjusting it is more appropriate at this time, especially since we haven't gotten the full kit for 70 and 80.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Oh, thnaks for the correction.

I'd still go for more weapons because its just aesthetic though, Glamour is the true endgame and I'd rather keep the amount of jobs where the weapon deviates from their general aesthetic to a minimum (For ex ample i'm i'm using Fae weapons, I'd like one for BLU as well)

Glamour is always true endgame regardless of the Job XD

[sarehptar]

We already have a scenario where going into a instance locks you to a certain hotbar/certain set of skills such as when we do PvP. They should just let BLU queue via the Duty Finder but lock them to a certain set of skills for each role while using the DF. Exclude "OP" skills like missile/launcher/death/doom and don't allow a player to queue via the DF at all if they don't have all the required skills acquired. That way, players who want the full BLU experience of using skills like death or missile can still have that experience by grouping via PF or a pre-made, but people who just want to complete the content/story dungeon as BLU can queue with a more limited, less "broken" skillset via DF.

The real problem is that the DF isn't set up to handle aetherial mimicry, and personally I think we would not have seen BLU as a permanent limited class if it weren't for the idea of it being able to play all three roles. The game doesn't recognize BLU tanks and healers AS tanks and healers, which creates issues with mechanics. The way Duty Finder works currently, it's unlikely that it would ever be able to properly queue BLU mages as anything other than DPS.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

We already have a scenario where going into a instance locks you to a certain hotbar/certain set of skills such as when we do PvP. They should just let BLU queue via the Duty Finder but lock them to a certain set of skills for each role while using the DF. Exclude "OP" skills like missile/launcher/death/doom and don't allow a player to queue via the DF at all if they don't have all the required skills acquired. That way, players who want the full BLU experience of using skills like death or missile can still have that experience by grouping via PF or a pre-made, but people who just want to complete the content/story dungeon as BLU can queue with a more limited, less "broken" skillset via DF.

The real problem is that the DF isn't set up to handle aetherial mimicry, and personally I think we would not have seen BLU as a permanent limited class if it weren't for the idea of it being able to play all three roles. The game doesn't recognize BLU tanks and healers AS tanks and healers, which creates issues with mechanics. The way Duty Finder works currently, it's unlikely that it would ever be able to properly queue BLU mages as anything other than DPS.

You first point presents a great suggestion, I mean if they have already done it for level synced skills, why not apply it to certain Blue Mage Spells.

I’d say at this point Aetherial Mimicry is the least of our concerns as it stands Blue Mage is still DPS, if it were to gain the abilities of a tank, they only raise their defense and boost certain skills, if healer the certain moves that are healer based will become stronger and if DPS Critical and Direct Hit rate increase. Currently Aetherial Mimicry is more of A Realm Reborn (ARR) pseudo tank stance with the ability to affect a Blue Mage’s capabilities in a fight. I can agree with the sentiment that Blue wasn’t designed to be a Tank, but a healer or DPS? Sure! I mean it isn’t far of a stretch when their FFXI counterpart can easily do tanking, support or damage dealers, so maybe in FFXIV they can be a DPS and a Healer rather than a tank. At this stage of time if Blue Mage is only to be able to que as a DPS role that is perfectly fine, it just means some Blue Mages have an easier time to learn spells only available in dungeons or Duty Finder.

[Melichoir]

Removal of spells? No, but adjusting the spells? I can wholly agree, although I would like to point out that missiles won’t work on Alexander Trash in A12S, mainly because they are a type of mobs categorized as Machines, Machines won’t get affected by Missiles or even Launcher, so people will still have to adjust accordingly. I’d like to also point out that even if we have these skills, if Blue Mages were to participate in the current tier of raids, there is not much to add unless you count E7S & E8S (Eden Raids) where they have adds. Will they be affected by missiles or launchers? I am not too sure, but I doubt it since they can just add resistance to the adds.

I’d say Final Sting and Self Destruct is somewhat decent at the moment. But if there was just 1 Blue Mage in the party it can be a hindrance if the attack wasn’t timed right, plus they already adjusted it to prevent spell spamming until after 10 minutes even after a wipe the debuff remains. In addition if you raise the Blue Mage he will have the Weakness debuff. Overall, not a good idea if you are mainly focused on DPS-ing and if they are healing or tanking, it would be disastrous to the current pull as they wont have the MP to either diamondback a tank buster or White Wind to heal the group during a area of effect raid wide damage.

Umm what?

First, Im not only talking about raids, Im talking about general content. Again, 5 minute AVs are a thing. And then since were talking about Savage content - How do you think people are clearing that with full BLU parties? Oh yeah, theyre using final sting towards the end to burst the boss down. You dont give enough credit to how people theory craft and test this stuff to find the most efficient means of doing content. It would be pretty likely that BLU would become a must bring class if left relatively unchanged - something the devs were keen on cutting down on this xpac.

Leaving these skills in runs you into 1 of 2 possibilities: 1) The Skills get nerfed to such a niche point that most players are like "well, whatever, Im not gonna waste my time figuring out what works where.", or 2) Skills remain relatively unaltered and BLU becomes mandatory in current content due to how some of these skills function.

[basketofseals]

Expecting SE to abandon their current vision and develop what is essentially 3 more jobs seems a touch unrealistic.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Umm what?

First, Im not only talking about raids, Im talking about general content. Again, 5 minute AVs are a thing. And then since were talking about Savage content - How do you think people are clearing that with full BLU parties? Oh yeah, theyre using final sting towards the end to burst the boss down. You dont give enough credit to how people theory craft and test this stuff to find the most efficient means of doing content. It would be pretty likely that BLU would become a must bring class if left relatively unchanged - something the devs were keen on cutting down on this xpac.

Leaving these skills in runs you into 1 of 2 possibilities: 1) The Skills get nerfed to such a niche point that most players are like "well, whatever, Im not gonna waste my time figuring out what works where.", or 2) Skills remain relatively unaltered and BLU becomes mandatory in current content due to how some of these skills function.

Looking at general content with the previous suggestion made by sarehptar where certain skills could be unavailable for certain duties, just like level sync. Where in a duty the dungeon will disallow you to use moves that are above the duty’s level cap. The concept of that can be applied to general content for blue mages preventing the use of overpowered or broken spells in normal duty finder.

Thank you for reminding me about theory crafting, as they do it for all classes. Maxing out as much DPS as Possible with every single job, providing the best rotation for DPS and Tanks as well as advice on when to DPS and Heal as a healer. So to say Blue will become mandatory is to say all optimized classes will be mandatory. Meaning it requires Skill and Gear. Not because of a job being better than the others. Even though that has been proven with Summoner. People will always try to find the best way to deal damage to any class no matter what. Optimization is always and has been in the game even without Blue Mage, Look at A Realm Reborn, we had tanks with strength accessories melded with materia and especially crafted melded accessories at that to maximise DPS potential in Coil of Bahamut.

Again, disabling a certain ability in certain duties like how Level Sync disables certain moves depending on your level in the current duty will work to prevent cheesing mechanics as well as preventing the mandatory use of Blue Mages. If players don’t want to figure out how to play as a Blue Mage, there are people and guides to teach them how. If they still refuse to learn, well it is another optional class like how I can say “I prefer to do raids as a caster or range but I don’t like playing as a melee or healer during raids” It is an option, nobody is forcing you to take up Blue Mage. Besides, there may be guides saying Blue Mage is the best option for DPS there will still be players who choose to play something else and they can still outperform other classes. This is gear, skill and rotation. Either you learn to deal out the best DPS you can or bring in low effort DPS.

I noticed that myself when near the end in all raids, Blue Mages just use the final sting combo to efficiently down the boss. Fair enough, but if it was a real raid with an actual party would you think they would do something like that. If that were the case nerfing the potency would be able to fix it but it defeats the purpose of a suicide move. Honestly the same could be applied for Red Mages and Summoners since they both have the best utility in terms of raising people mid fight during raids. Another idea to nerf it is to add another debuff that prevents you from being raised for 30 seconds to 1 minute. Seems like a fair trade off. Dealt a damage worth 1 minute of your DPS in return you cannot be raised until after a minute and after raise you’ll still have the debuff plus weakness. I would like to point out that if this was to be applied, this move would never be used in raids unless near the end or near the enrage timer, considering that if the person cannot be raised and there is a mechanic requiring 8 people, it is a definite wipe.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Expecting SE to abandon their current vision and develop what is essentially 3 more jobs seems a touch unrealistic.

Mind elaborating their current vision to me then so I can get a grasp of what you mean?