Suggesting Ideas for Blue Mage with feedback & Removing Limited Job Status

[sarehptar]

We already have a scenario where going into a instance locks you to a certain hotbar/certain set of skills such as when we do PvP. They should just let BLU queue via the Duty Finder but lock them to a certain set of skills for each role while using the DF. Exclude "OP" skills like missile/launcher/death/doom and don't allow a player to queue via the DF at all if they don't have all the required skills acquired. That way, players who want the full BLU experience of using skills like death or missile can still have that experience by grouping via PF or a pre-made, but people who just want to complete the content/story dungeon as BLU can queue with a more limited, less "broken" skillset via DF.

The real problem is that the DF isn't set up to handle aetherial mimicry, and personally I think we would not have seen BLU as a permanent limited class if it weren't for the idea of it being able to play all three roles. The game doesn't recognize BLU tanks and healers AS tanks and healers, which creates issues with mechanics. The way Duty Finder works currently, it's unlikely that it would ever be able to properly queue BLU mages as anything other than DPS.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

We already have a scenario where going into a instance locks you to a certain hotbar/certain set of skills such as when we do PvP. They should just let BLU queue via the Duty Finder but lock them to a certain set of skills for each role while using the DF. Exclude "OP" skills like missile/launcher/death/doom and don't allow a player to queue via the DF at all if they don't have all the required skills acquired. That way, players who want the full BLU experience of using skills like death or missile can still have that experience by grouping via PF or a pre-made, but people who just want to complete the content/story dungeon as BLU can queue with a more limited, less "broken" skillset via DF.

The real problem is that the DF isn't set up to handle aetherial mimicry, and personally I think we would not have seen BLU as a permanent limited class if it weren't for the idea of it being able to play all three roles. The game doesn't recognize BLU tanks and healers AS tanks and healers, which creates issues with mechanics. The way Duty Finder works currently, it's unlikely that it would ever be able to properly queue BLU mages as anything other than DPS.

You first point presents a great suggestion, I mean if they have already done it for level synced skills, why not apply it to certain Blue Mage Spells.

I’d say at this point Aetherial Mimicry is the least of our concerns as it stands Blue Mage is still DPS, if it were to gain the abilities of a tank, they only raise their defense and boost certain skills, if healer the certain moves that are healer based will become stronger and if DPS Critical and Direct Hit rate increase. Currently Aetherial Mimicry is more of A Realm Reborn (ARR) pseudo tank stance with the ability to affect a Blue Mage’s capabilities in a fight. I can agree with the sentiment that Blue wasn’t designed to be a Tank, but a healer or DPS? Sure! I mean it isn’t far of a stretch when their FFXI counterpart can easily do tanking, support or damage dealers, so maybe in FFXIV they can be a DPS and a Healer rather than a tank. At this stage of time if Blue Mage is only to be able to que as a DPS role that is perfectly fine, it just means some Blue Mages have an easier time to learn spells only available in dungeons or Duty Finder.

[sarehptar]

I’d say at this point Aetherial Mimicry is the least of our concerns as it stands Blue Mage is still DPS, if it were to gain the abilities of a tank, they only raise their defense and boost certain skills, if healer the certain moves that are healer based will become stronger and if DPS Critical and Direct Hit rate increase. Currently Aetherial Mimicry is more of A Realm Reborn (ARR) pseudo tank stance with the ability to affect a Blue Mage’s capabilities in a fight. I can agree with the sentiment that Blue wasn’t designed to be a Tank, but a healer or DPS? Sure! I mean it isn’t far of a stretch when their FFXI counterpart can easily do tanking, support or damage dealers, so maybe in FFXIV they can be a DPS and a Healer rather than a tank. At this stage of time if Blue Mage is only to be able to que as a DPS role that is perfectly fine, it just means some Blue Mages have an easier time to learn spells only available in dungeons or Duty Finder.

No, I meant more in terms of the practical, back-end coding issue. For a four-man dungeon, for example, the Duty Finder is coded to find one tank, one healer, and two DPS. But the game always considers BLU a DPS, even if you mimic a tank or a healer. Therefore, with the current actual coding of the Duty Finder, it would only ever be possible for BLU to queue via DF as a DPS--the Duty Finder just isn't set up to recognize BLU as a tank or healer, no matter what skills you have set or what you have mimic'd. This means that if BLU was allowed to use DF, you'd only ever be able to go as a DPS, which does suck some of the fun out of the class--part of BLU's appeal is being able to do all three roles.

In order to fix this issue, Square would either have to completely recode how aetherial mimicry works so that the game would actually recognize a BLU in tank stance as a tank or in heal stance as a healer, or they'd have to complete rewrite the way the Duty Finder works to allow BLU to select a specific role (tank, healer, or DPS) before queuing. Either possibility seems highly unlikely to me at this point.

However, even if the coding can't be fixed, allowing BLU to DF-queue as a DPS with a DPS-specific set of skills should still happen. If you just block the instant-kill skills from BLU, it would function exactly the same as any other DPS in average DF stuff without needing any real tweaks. The only reason I can see for this not happening yet is that Square just doesn't have the resources to actually balance another DPS class right now.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

No, I meant more in terms of the practical, back-end coding issue. For a four-man dungeon, for example, the Duty Finder is coded to find one tank, one healer, and two DPS. But the game always considers BLU a DPS, even if you mimic a tank or a healer. Therefore, with the current actual coding of the Duty Finder, it would only ever be possible for BLU to queue via DF as a DPS--the Duty Finder just isn't set up to recognize BLU as a tank or healer, no matter what skills you have set or what you have mimic'd. This means that if BLU was allowed to use DF, you'd only ever be able to go as a DPS, which does suck some of the fun out of the class--part of BLU's appeal is being able to do all three roles.

In order to fix this issue, Square would either have to completely recode how aetherial mimicry works so that the game would actually recognize a BLU in tank stance as a tank or in heal stance as a healer, or they'd have to complete rewrite the way the Duty Finder works to allow BLU to select a specific role (tank, healer, or DPS) before queuing. Either possibility seems highly unlikely to me at this point.

However, even if the coding can't be fixed, allowing BLU to DF-queue as a DPS with a DPS-specific set of skills should still happen. If you just block the instant-kill skills from BLU, it would function exactly the same as any other DPS in average DF stuff without needing any real tweaks. The only reason I can see for this not happening yet is that Square just doesn't have the resources to actually balance another DPS class right now.

That seems to be the case, if Aetherial Mimicry becomes something similar to that of a stance that changes the Blue Mage’s role then it would be very likely that they have to recode specifically for Blue Mage.which in turn be a lengthy process altogether to make the class truly multi-role. I agree this would be an unlikely scenario even with the highest of hopes. The most likely scenario is that they would be a pure-DPS role with a lot of utility.

If they were to pick the least amount of difficulty in the list of options you point out, I'd say they would just make it a pure DPS with additional utility. Like Red Mage, a useful utility mage that can raise anyone if a party member faints and heal anyone that a Healer is too far to reach. If Square Enix doesn't have much resources to try and balance or improve Blue Mage. I'd suggest as a community of players let us discuss more on how we could improve Blue Mage and how it can be implemented as a proper job without altering too much of its skill. I welcome a critical discussion on the thread I have posted here in the SE forums.

[SpiralMask]

No, I meant more in terms of the practical, back-end coding issue. For a four-man dungeon, for example, the Duty Finder is coded to find one tank, one healer, and two DPS. But the game always considers BLU a DPS, even if you mimic a tank or a healer. Therefore, with the current actual coding of the Duty Finder, it would only ever be possible for BLU to queue via DF as a DPS--the Duty Finder just isn't set up to recognize BLU as a tank or healer, no matter what skills you have set or what you have mimic'd. This means that if BLU was allowed to use DF, you'd only ever be able to go as a DPS, which does suck some of the fun out of the class--part of BLU's appeal is being able to do all three roles.

In order to fix this issue, Square would either have to completely recode how aetherial mimicry works so that the game would actually recognize a BLU in tank stance as a tank or in heal stance as a healer, or they'd have to complete rewrite the way the Duty Finder works to allow BLU to select a specific role (tank, healer, or DPS) before queuing. Either possibility seems highly unlikely to me at this point.

However, even if the coding can't be fixed, allowing BLU to DF-queue as a DPS with a DPS-specific set of skills should still happen. If you just block the instant-kill skills from BLU, it would function exactly the same as any other DPS in average DF stuff without needing any real tweaks. The only reason I can see for this not happening yet is that Square just doesn't have the resources to actually balance another DPS class right now.

along with snipping the death skills for DF, moving white wind from %hp-based to a flat potency like other heals would help in any case so you dont have a DPS as the defacto best healer in the game, and a great many of the "OP" status effects (deep freeze, petrify, long-duration paralyze, etc) could be either put on a cooldown like the stun-kick role action, as a charge-based skill with a cooldown (i'd argue that loom needs this regardless), increased mana costs to prevent spamming, or reduced in duration for basic balance/encounter design allowances so the BLU isnt locking down whole packs through dungeons or skipping/breaking mechanics and whatnot (though in any case the problem of immunities/resistance buildup and the skills' overall limited usefulness in FF14's combat system remains, since most later-end monsters and bosses would likely be immune to everything but interrupts and possibly stuns anyway)

[TeraTyrantShadic]

along with snipping the death skills for DF, moving white wind from %hp-based to a flat potency like other heals would help in any case so you dont have a DPS as the defacto best healer in the game, and a great many of the "OP" status effects (deep freeze, petrify, long-duration paralyze, etc) could be either put on a cooldown like the stun-kick role action, as a charge-based skill with a cooldown (i'd argue that loom needs this regardless), increased mana costs to prevent spamming, or reduced in duration for basic balance/encounter design allowances so the BLU isnt locking down whole packs through dungeons or skipping/breaking mechanics and whatnot (though in any case the problem of immunities/resistance buildup and the skills' overall limited usefulness in FF14's combat system remains, since most later-end monsters and bosses would likely be immune to everything but interrupts and possibly stuns anyway)

This is a great suggestion to add, Mind I add it to the document? This can provide a general idea on how to allow Blue Mage into future end game content along with the other jobs.