Change The Rules For Leaving Dungeons (aka Why People Insta-Quit Castrum Meridianum)

[MariaArvana]

So I should be locked out of duty roulette for the entire day because the groceries I ordered for delivery show up 2 hours in advance of my requested delivery window and I have to go afk 15 minutes to accept delivery then put away the perishables before I can return to my computer?

No thank you.

You misread. The "punishment" in question wouldn't be punishing to you in that situation.

The idea is that once a roulette pops - whichever duty is chosen, is what you're locked to run for the day, whether you leave and come back later or not. So if you get Castrum, and then have to leave for an actual IRL reason, then the next time you queue MSQ roulette that day, the game will *only* put you into Castrum groups until you clear it. Meaning people with actual IRL reasons for leaving can do so, or if you get a toxic group, there's no penalty. Leave and afk, come back, re-queue, finish the dungeon you were doing earlier, get your roulette exp, no biggie. While people who are attempting to game the system are forced to do the dungeon chosen, or they forfeit the roulette for the day since there'll be no alternative, as the game will always force them back into that dungeon till the daily reset.

To give an example:

-Guy queues MSQ Roulette
-Guy gets Castrum
-Guy has an IRL emergency and leaves
-Guy gets 30 min lockout, and then new 'lockout' means he can only get castrum for the day.
-Guy comes back 2 hours later, re-queues MSQ roulette.
-Game sees his lockout, puts him into Castrum group.
-Guy gets his roulette exp, happy camper.

So genuine reasons for leaving aren't punished, while people trying to game the system are. Win-Win.

[Tsalmaveth]

It's not 'gaming the system' to decide you do not like or want to do an instance and leaving. It is 100% supported by the options the developers took time to code and put into the game for players to USE.

Y'all are over the board with your assumptions that people should only have the type of fun you think is acceptable and allowed, IE: that will benefit and not inconvenience you above all else. Get over yourselves.

No one needs to be forced to run something they do not want to run. Ever. At all. For any reason. Period. I have left several CT runs simply because I am over and done SICK of that place, especially when people game the roulette manipulating their ilvl. Sure, they're free to do so. And I'm free to leave it and not have to run it, choosing to toss my hat in later to run something I DO want to do. In my free time. In a game. That I pay for. To have fun.

Not to mention the logistics of coding that would screw with groups if one person is 'locked' like you seem to think is okay to do, and their party-mates are not OR locked to something else. The developers are not going to try to deal with that kind of hassle, because trust me it would BE a massive pain in the rear to set up and test. The 30 time-out protects people from the old serial-droppers who wanted in-progress to be lazy, but it also protects the player who left from being put right back into something they did not want for WHATEVER reason(including stuck with harassing/abusive people). Trying to FORCE people to do something they do not want is a great way to invite them to stop playing your game, and that is not something developers are keen on doing.

[Arillyn]

You misread. The "punishment" in question wouldn't be punishing to you in that situation.

The idea is that once a roulette pops - whichever duty is chosen, is what you're locked to run for the day, whether you leave and come back later or not. So if you get Castrum, and then have to leave for an actual IRL reason, then the next time you queue MSQ roulette that day, the game will *only* put you into Castrum groups until you clear it. Meaning people with actual IRL reasons for leaving can do so, or if you get a toxic group, there's no penalty. Leave and afk, come back, re-queue, finish the dungeon you were doing earlier, get your roulette exp, no biggie. While people who are attempting to game the system are forced to do the dungeon chosen, or they forfeit the roulette for the day since there'll be no alternative, as the game will always force them back into that dungeon till the daily reset.

To give an example:

-Guy queues MSQ Roulette
-Guy gets Castrum
-Guy has an IRL emergency and leaves
-Guy gets 30 min lockout, and then new 'lockout' means he can only get castrum for the day.
-Guy comes back 2 hours later, re-queues MSQ roulette.
-Game sees his lockout, puts him into Castrum group.
-Guy gets his roulette exp, happy camper.

So genuine reasons for leaving aren't punished, while people trying to game the system are. Win-Win.

This makes sense to me. My only question is how does the system know where to put you say you come back with a friend into the roulette 2 hours later? Example - you had to bail CM and your friend had to bail Prae. You both want to do your MSQ roulette now and maybe you have a couple other friends who want to join. Say 5 of you queue in a party together - how does the game know which to put your party into? The game will see you should be in CM and your friend should be in Prae.

Not being a pain on this - I'm genuinely curious how the game would sort this.

[MariaArvana]

It's not 'gaming the system' to decide you do not like or want to do an instance and leaving. It is 100% supported by the options the developers took time to code and put into the game for players to USE.

Y'all are over the board with your assumptions that people should only have the type of fun you think is acceptable and allowed, IE: that will benefit and not inconvenience you above all else. Get over yourselves.

I'd argue that since it's a roulette, leaving with the sole intention of manipulating the results of what you get for the daily result is 'gaming the system' since the result is intended to be random. But you seem to think otherwise, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sure, people are free to use the tools the developers have given them. But the simple reality is that by choosing to leave, you are impacting the potential fun and time of others, and thus must suffer a penalty. and unfortunately, that penalty is pretty light as of right now. Sometimes the impact is minimal and a replacement is found quickly, sometimes no one is queuing in prog and the remaining people in the instance are screwed. I've had leveling roulettes later at night that had to be abandoned due to no healers queuing in-progress at that time after 15 minutes of waiting for someone to pop; wasting a collective 45 minutes from us remaining three on top of our queue times, including the queue times of both my friend & me who were dps (40mins yo.). In the case of castrum, it literally bars entryway to the next expansion if someone is unlucky and keeps getting people that want to bail to get Prae.

Roulettes are meant to fill queues, and give a reward to the player as a deal in exchange for doing what the roulette gives you. I'm quite honestly of the opinion of implementing the above since it's a ROULETTE, not 'leave till you get something you want' button. Sure, there'd be some logistics to figure out in the case of parties, but the above solution is probably the least impactful to people that have genuine reasons for leaving, while completely curb-stomping anyone attempting to manipulate their daily result.

And no, no one is being forced to run anything in my situation either. If they don't like what they get, they can choose to not run that roulette at all for the day; a perfectly valid choice. Chances are if they have the free time to leave, wait 30mins and try again at getting Prae, they can use that time for other things too.

Heck, I even remember my first time trying to beat the final boss of the SB MSQ back when that expansion was released it took me literally 9 groups. 4 of which just had people leaving on the spot before the barriers even dropped from it proccing on their trails roulette, with half the group quickly bailing out right after.

[QooEr]

And no, no one is being forced to run anything in my situation either. If they don't like what they get, they can choose to not run that roulette at all for the day; a perfectly valid choice. Chances are if they have the free time to leave, wait 30mins and try again at getting Prae, they can use that time for other things too.

your "solution" then fixes no problems and only screws some people over. instead of getting more people to do castrum, it's just punishing them for leaving it whcih is not even similar

i assure you people would still leave castrum and just not requeue. i know for a fact i would leave and not get my roulette bonus that day because i get more experience in less time and less effort doing an at-level dungeon than doing castrum.

if so many people are leaving castrum the problem is castrum, not the penalty system

[MariaArvana]

if so many people are leaving castrum the problem is castrum, not the penalty system

Sure, I agree. MSQ roulette should just be removed and the two made into single player instances in all honesty; it's long been overdue and is hopefully the case with the 5.3 ARR MSQ changes.

And given that such a player would bail if they got castrum again if they tried to reqeue later, what exactly would be lost from them not simply re-queueing that roulette at all for the day? just being blunt, them bailing anytime they get castrum is essentially the same as them not queueing at all, since whatever group they're in would be -1 person anyway.

[Kuroka]

You misread. The "punishment" in question wouldn't be punishing to you in that situation.

Ye that would be nice, so accept what you get and know, you gotta do what the roulett gives you - OR if you wanna be picky, choose the stuff you want and do that directly.

[Videra]

You cannot stop me from leaving Toto-Rak.

[Arillyn]

You cannot stop me from leaving Toto-Rak.

I laughed at this for real. That is my most hated dungeon. I HATE the green goop on the floor.

[Canadane]

Any rule that's enforced in the game involves an option. If you didn't have the option to do certain things they wouldn't have to add punishments to deter you from doing them. If you can't or don't want to run then you shouldn't queue; that's the rule. Bailing on a group screws over the group, and that's what they're trying to discourage with the penalty.

If the existing penalty isn't discouraging people then more penalties are necessary.

Again I will reiterate myself here, as you have missed the point. Leaving a place you don't want to be is beneficial to everyone. It opens a slot for someone that does want to be there. It lets the person who doesn't want to be there try something else after 30 minutes.
And in the case of Castrum and Praetorium the two places where it happens the most often, you can continue with 7 people, heck 4 or 5 does just as well. It's a lot better than dragging along a leech that just afks the entire thing. It does not slow down progression of those instances at all.