"Overhaul" please stop.

[Daniolaut]

Waitaminute

Haven't you posted a thread like this before?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...has-to-be-said.

You got roasted there as well.

You dont even understand what the word roasted means.

The person who responded to me, threw the entire thread off the rails. I wasnt talking about Dancer, and they focused entirely on that and that alone. Its very easy to take a topic and then nit pick one specific word or phrase. It doesnt mean that person is productive or correct it just means they are able to argue.

aaand this is where i checked out and dismissed your whole arguement for the shrieking, hyperbolic nonsense that it is. All because of one bloody word.

Get a sense of perspective.

And speaking of nit picking a single statement, and getting off topic.

We can do that here a bit too.

FFXIV, in my opinion is easily the worst Final Fantasy.

How?

You can take any Final Fantasy game, and once you remove "opinions" and leave just facts, this one is easily the worst.

Every Final Fantasy up to FFXIV, skipping XIV and going to XV, are all made with precision and expertise. They are fully fleshed out games, with little to no bugs.

FFXIV 1.0 was littered with bugs.

FFXIV 2.0+ is littered with extremely poor quality.

Examples?

NPC's who laugh/emote/turn/clap whatever, at the exact same time like robots. This is lazy development.

FFXIV 2.0 was slapped together while FFXIV 1.0 was still running. All of the side quests in 2.0 are all the exact same type. There is no variety in the entirety of FFXIV 2.0

In Final Fantasy, the original you had multiple modes of movement. Walking, Canoe, Boat, and Airship. (chocobo's were introduced in FFII.) So that alone puts FFI as a greater video game than FFXIV. As FFXIV has no variety in its entire main story. Its just quests, walking, chocobo/mounts. From level 1 to level 50. The mini games like the sniper things with the Pixie beast tribes dont come until much later.

The cutscenes for riding the elevator in the drowning wench was already created, but canned for 2.0. So other similar quality things such as that are gone as well.

So a lack of attention to detail, even with having FFXIV 1.0 as a guideline, is thrown out the window.

Then down to simple things like creating realistic scenes with a panning camera are mostly void outside of the main story, and some main story quests lack these aspects.

All of which are prevalent in the FFXI online game, so you cant say "well this is a MMO you cant compare it to a single player experience."

On top of the lack of quality, there is also a lack of quantity. FFXI has an array of things to do, the maps are much much larger in FFXI, the world is also engaging, in the sense, that there are actual notorious monsters, enemies that can actually kill you, danger, and interactive open world devices, such as levers, or gates. FFXIV is empty, easy, and a huge... or rather "small" not huge, push over. You can literally run from Mor Dhona, as a level 1.....

While on that subject, you can run to Mor Dhona as a level 1... if you started in Ul'dah or Gridania. You CANNOT if you started in Limsa. Yoshida said he wanted people to be able to explore, but if you start in Limsa you're locked on the island. this was not the case in 1.0. This decision is completely inconsistent.

Speaking of Inconsistent, FFXIV is the pinnacle of inconsistency. From Belts needing twines to be upgraded in 2.0, to needing coats to be upgraded in 5.0.

... honestly I could go on and on about how much of a mess FFXIV is compared to any Final Fantasy game...

but....

the point is I said FFXIV is the worst Final Fantasy, that you wanted to pick apart. I'm sure completely neglecting the fact, while in, yes, my opinion, doesnt mean its bad game. I've been playing it longer than you and clocked in more active game hours i'm sure by a long shot than you. But you want to freak out and flip your lid cause you didnt like what I said, based on the simple fact you failed to grasp the very specific choice of words.

People can say they dont like FFXIII because its "on rails" which it very much is. But that game wasnt created to be this huge exploring game. It was meant to be a story driven game, and it was created and developed for that very purpose. You can choose not to enjoy the story, but to deny that the game wasnt an extremely rich story, with depths leaps and bounds beyond any other Final Fantasy is completely nonsense, and would be true hyperbolic nonsense.

Hate the gameplay? sure go right ahead. Dislike the story, your opinion, but deny its not a massive story, with rich and deep meaning, .. get out.

You guys are obviously just burnt out and frustrated, like everything you do over an extended period of time. Eat one potatoe chip, it tastes great and spicy. Five minutes later you grab hands full and are dissatisfied when the package is gone. Same with beer, cigarettes, you name it. We have a Legacy Player and a Crafter with "billions of Gil". The first one does not respond and the latter ping pongs her opinion a bit back and forth. You get some silent upvoters that would do so on every "Back then it was much better" statement (I can see that in LoL that I played since early 2010) forgetting that a shift in gameplay might put playerbase A off, but attract playerbase B. And that's it. That's all this thread has to offer so far, and that is far from being a drastic problem but rather two (!) people being obviously over-dosed by this particular game while basically describing any MMOs long term problems in a nutshell like so many people did before in any franchise you want to name.

I see crafters sitting around for hours, listening to the same two sound effects and pressing as many buttons as you can find on a GameBoy - often macro-assisted even. Of course this is getting dull very fast. If you "competitively craft" (?!), you basically play nothing more what a browser game could do for you: Juggling crafting windows, marketboards and drop down menus. Reducing the game to that is not a real indicator about the game's quality. Nobody would doubt visually boring browser games are getting stale quickly. So of course, nobody should doubt hardcore crafting is not different.

Sincerely,

This is well written, and I almost always appreciate your posts, but I just wanted to point out I say my peace, and get back to the game. People rarely say anything worth responding to, or just try to argue for the sake of arguing.

I would love if the forums were a productive site the dev's could connect with the players, and the players could have respectful discussions, but the fact remains, the forums are a mostly a place where people post meme's and say the most absurd things to farm "likes' most of the time, adding absolutely no value or meaning to any conversation or train of thought. So again, I say my peace, then get back to FFXIV.

[Razard]

Snip.

Yawn

So you have anything other than hyperbole, melodrama and stating opinions as facts? This overblown superficial nonsense is why you get roasted my friend.

Here’s some opinions for you. FFXIV 1.0 was a car crash that nearly killed the FF name and FFXI was a boring, grindy crab punching simulator which evolved into a “who can click the bot against the NM, or whatever they are called today, first” simulator at end game. Forever destined for the niche of a niche of people they could convince to Stockholm syndrome themselves into it.

Also:

Roast
INFORMAL
To criticize or reprimand severely.

[RVallant]

Presumably SE has numbers on how many people engage with crafting and they aren't happy with how low it is. IIRC that's why we got the Ixal beast tribe, to try and help boost the number of people who engaged with crafting. So it's probably also why they made Moogles and Namazu even easier, and made crafter EXP silly easy to get, and now made crafts almost difficult to fail at by upping the success rates of abilities, and made it so you don't need to be an omni-crafter.

Maybe not omni crafter for cross-class skills, but there's still a lot of material overlap isn't there?

I admire the overlap in one way, because it makes sense thematically, but it doesn't make it easy to just pick something and run with it, since you'll always have the resource issue and that can be expensive if you have to go via the marketboard for materials when levelling.

To be honest, I'm happy with the changes in terms of success rate; takes some of the RNG out of things, which helps - but I refuse to go back to crafting prominently as it's such a slog and a burnout for me.

[Vyrerus]

Yawn

So you have anything other than hyperbole, melodrama and stating opinions as facts? This overblown superficial nonsense is why you get roasted my friend.

Here’s some opinions for you. FFXIV 1.0 was a car crash that nearly killed the FF name and FFXI was a boring, grindy crab punching simulator which evolved into a “who can click the bot against the NM, or whatever they are called today, first” simulator at end game. Forever destined for the niche of a niche of people they could convince to Stockholm syndrome themselves into it.

Also:

Roast
INFORMAL
To criticize or reprimand severely.

Actually, FFXI was a rich and expansive game with complex story beats and lovable, memorable NPCs. It was addictive and fun, for anyone who could get through the initial solo grind up to level 11 or so. Crab punching only describes about 4 or 5 EXP camp locations for 3 or level ranges, and two specific skill-up locales that players defaulted to, because crabs are easy to deal with. It was dripping with weight and atmosphere. I won't deny the endgame was shitty, particularly prior to TOAU at 75, but it got better as the game went on, particularly when the game was "killed" by the Abyssea add-ons.

It's actually a prime example of Lima Syndrome. SE improved FFXI's quality of life year after year, trying to keep subscribers on board, offering horizontal progression in an MMO for multiple endgame routes, while also trying to not be too heavy handed with re-balancing jobs all of the time. It was still a hot mess, all things considered, but it was a fun hot mess.

Compare it to FFXIV, and really the only commonality between them is some enemy models and the genre type, MMORPG. FFXIV is so rigid in its structure that off the cuff fun is sort of hard to come by, and due to its fast paced combat, social interaction suffers tremendously. I still love it though.

[Eldevern]

Difficulty? You mean this RNG thing for melding and "excellent" proc? Erf... That's not what I call difficulty, just damn bloody rng. We all know how it ends.

[Shinklet]

apart from pvp, overhaul that please.

We've been playing ranked on the same map for two years. Spare a crumb.

[Liam_Harper]

Presumably SE has numbers on how many people engage with crafting and they aren't happy with how low it is. IIRC that's why we got the Ixal beast tribe, to try and help boost the number of people who engaged with crafting. So it's probably also why they made Moogles and Namazu even easier, and made crafter EXP silly easy to get, and now made crafts almost difficult to fail at by upping the success rates of abilities, and made it so you don't need to be an omni-crafter.

Making it easier doesn't make it better though.

If something takes a lot of work and patience, it's not going to be for everyone. They'd have to enjoy that particular activity. However, if you took the bulk of the work out and left the rewards intact, people will do it. A good reward is worth it if you only have to do a little of the activity you dislike to get it. This is exactly what they've done with crafting, rather than looking at ways to make it fun for a wider audience (like combat, which covers every range of difficulty, multiple roles and classes) they've simply made it so you have to do less of that nasty crafting thing to get items.

The problem is this shifts the goalposts and changes the value of the rewards. In the past, 1-2 million gil for a single DoH grade 6 materia was expensive and full master recipe combat sets were rare early in a patch. Nowadays 20k for grade 8's is considered expensive by many players and they complain about overmelding. 480 gear is extremely common and nothing sells for much or is worth anything. So crafting again isn't worth the rewards to players who don't enjoy crafting.

Numbers have already dropped, Ishgard is much emptier and the DoH boards are dead. They'll have to simplify it again and again. They're no longer making crafting for the players who enjoy crafting in itself, in fact they've taken it away from those who enjoyed it. The others just don't like crafting. They don't really enjoy it. Handing it to them on a plate won't make them like the activity itself.

[Razard]

*Obnoxious mouth breathing* Ahhhktually...

Ok let me stop you right there. This is what I am talking about, this poor fellow has convinced himself he enjoyed himself being chained to a game that actively hated him.

SE improved FFXI's quality of life year after year, trying to keep subscribers on board...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfiTebewnc
Tell us about the time the game nearly killed a group of people.

[Nandrolone]

Ok let me stop you right there. This is what I am talking about, this poor fellow has convinced himself he enjoyed himself being chained to a game that actively hated him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfiTebewnc
Tell us about the time the game nearly killed a group of people.

Wow, you’re extremely toxic on this thread. Funny how toxicity is okay, granted you have the right opinions..

[Razard]

Wow, you’re extremely toxic on this thread. Funny how toxicity is okay, granted you have the right opinions..

Shame people like you aren't as quick to jump on people like TC with his overblown theatrics.

Right opinions indeed...